Alien Anomalies

qmantoo · Teaching the truth

RE: Space 2011

ICEMAN · Senior Member

Perfectly correct method of calculation can lead to absolute false conclusion just because of an incorrect understanding of the subject, this is the reality that science is facing today. The reason for this is that the individual is not mentally developed enough.

Mark Anthony · Member

Extraterrestrial Development Corporation (EDC)

Eaol · Veteran Member

1) What are qualifications anyway?

I was basically trying to say that I don't know for certain that Earth's humans are on any other planetary bodies with anything more than unmanned robots, so I don't meet the qualifications, requirements rather, to respond to your statement honestly.

2) The mind just boggles when I think of this kind of mentality, and I wonder what kind of sad pathetic beings we have, working for our military and governmental services in this way.

Well, it's how beings everywhere are. There is always a desire to have an edge over the competition. If you find something you can use to secure an advantage, and you know how to use it, you're going to use it sooner or later*.

3) I dont think we understand enough about the true fundementals of science and we probably dont even have the vocabulary to describe it either yet.

That's because most human scientists are not doing their work in a scientific way.

4) What are "ripples in the neutrino aether" and what branch of science would that be part of?

Neutrinos are an extremely common type of particle throughout space. They are the most 'collapsed' type of particle, with a vanishingly low mass.

On Earth, scientists once thought of the concept of a medium for light waves, because every other type of wave known to man also required a medium. Then a guy named Einstein came along, and completely, out-of-hand, discarded that notion, and asserted that light was a wave in...nothing, empty space. When Einstein came up with his theories, he completely disregarded man's knowledge of electricity.

The people like Einstein and those who came after him relied on mathematics and pure deductive reasoning only. This resulted in the current situation where scientists are extremely dogmatic, know nothing about how things in space really work, and hypothesize about all of these fantastic, impossible dreams like black holes, neutron stars, icy comets, nuclear stars, the Big Bang, etc etc. And what the hell do they mean by "wave-particle duality"? It's just another instance in which they are totally and utterly confused because of the assumption that light is only a wave with no medium. When they start observing physical effects of electromagnetic radiation (not to mention the obvious ones like heat transfer), they come up with the imaginary particle known as the photon, and are unsure how light can "behave as both a wave and a particle". That's impossible. It is a wave. It requires a medium.

The medium is the plethora of neutrinos observable in every area of space, which can pass through other, more dense matter. Even in a vacuum, they cannot really be removed because of how little mass they possess. So they are everywhere. We can detect them all the time.

Electromagnetic radiation is an "electric 'ripple'" whos speed depends on the moment of inertia of the neutrinos it passes through. It is physical. That is why these ripples can cause heat transfer between a hot, bright object and a cool object, because it causes more molecular kinetic energy in the cool object and heats it up.

The existence of these particles and their relation to light is why we can see some objects refracted around massive objects like Sol. It's just refraction due to a gravitationally-bound 'atmosphere' of neutrinos.

5) Obviously a need to be mysterious here.

Sorry. It wasn't important to the conversation.

6) ... and your home planet is...?

Not important to the conversation. smile

*As an important side-note, secrecy would fall under this category.

Chandre · Dedicated to the truth

One vote for 'maybe'

What would it depend on for you ?

qmantoo · Teaching the truth

I disclose none of my suspicions.Obviously a need to be mysterious here.
I'm not really qualified to respond to that.What are qualifications anyway? Just proof that you can regurgitate memorised data to answer some question on an exam sheet. Being qualified does not imply wisdom to use the information in a responsible way unfortunately - hence the A-bomb, and nuclear meltdowns in Japan.

Anyway,
Russia, China, US, UK and all the other countries will have started beavering away, trying to reverse engineer any crafts they could lay their hands on. Either by crashes or by shooting one down somehow. If one country has this technology, then as soon as word gets out, all the other countries will be sending their spies to get the details. They will also be falling over themselves to make themselves popular with any visiting aliens so they can 'pick their brains' for any cutting edge alien technology which will give them an advantage over the other countries.

The mind just boggles when I think of this kind of mentality, and I wonder what kind of sad pathetic beings we have, working for our military and governmental services in this way.

I dont think we understand enough about the true fundementals of science and we probably dont even have the vocabulary to describe it either yet.
What are "ripples in the neutrino aether" and what branch of science would that be part of?
... and your home planet is...?

Eaol · Veteran Member

1) To be realistic, we do not know what advanced technology there is in existence already.

I disclose none of my suspicions.

2) If the suspicions of some are correct, then we already have (interdimensional) spaceships capable of travelling faster than light.

Well, I probably shouldn't, but I want to correct you there. There is nothing keeping anything from travelling faster than light. Light isn't even made of imaginary photons, but ripples in the neutrino aether.

You don't need any "interdimensional" (which is silly anyway) craft. You just need a power source, a nice engine, and time on your hands to get it to work.

3) If so, then it is an even more waste of time.

Well, letting the public know about it isn't a waste of time. It's more of an issue with powerful people's status.

The fact that scientists imagine a fictitious barrier to faster-than-light travel is what is keeping such crafts from being built (as well as funding).

Reverse-engineering projects are different.

4) The point being that if some of these UFOs are ours, then we DO have this capability and if we have back-engineered advanced craft then we can do all these things and we are already on the Moon, Mars, etc.

I'm not really qualified to respond to that.

5) What are we spending all this money on if we can do these things already?

Resources. The muse. The explorer's spirit. That's different than reverse-engineering spaceships for defense purposes.

Eaol · Veteran Member

Well, artificial gravity can be done.

Chandre · Dedicated to the truth

I hope that everyone reading this realises it was written tongue-in-cheek. The reality is that whatever is sent out there/is already out there (made by humans) would be EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what I have described.

I wrote this bearing in mind what I would like if I ventured into space to visit the Moon and Mars. It is also what I would be proud to invite another race aboard to show how we do it and where we come from. A sanitised, metallic, military ship bristling with technology and weapons that could be reverse engineered by another race really should not be first contact.

Not much could be gotten from my crew except the basics and my ship would be interesting but unhelpful if another less developed race had war in mind. Yes there is technology but its mixed with other things that might just confuse them. Imagine if they assumed a waterless compost toilet was the height of our technology....

qmantoo · Teaching the truth

Maybe our government does not work that fast, but other races have had millenia to achieve this kind of technology. If we can do it in 10-100 years, then other races who have been around for millions of years must be far, far advanced.

I realise I assume that aliens exists here with us, but for me, all the evidence I can see is that they do.

To be realistic, we do not know what advanced technology there is in existence already. If the suspicions of some are correct, then we already have (interdimensional) spaceships capable of travelling faster than light. If so, then it is an even more waste of time. The point being that if some of these UFOs are ours, then we DO have this capability and if we have back-engineered advanced craft then we can do all these things and we are already on the Moon, Mars, etc. What are we spending all this money on if we can do these things already?

OK, our biology does not have the same advantages that alien biology has, we cannot live in harsh(to us) environments without a lot of help, but maybe it has some advantages for living on the Earth which they dont have.

If so, then all these possibilities are realities when using craft made and used by other races.

Remember, secret projects like the Blackbird etc have been kept from us for 20 years at least.

I guess there are too many 'IFs' in this post.

Eaol · Veteran Member

Because I don't think the government works that fast. Haha.

MylesO · Member

100 years? How about 2-10 years?

Chandre · Dedicated to the truth

Q, I agree, we (as a race) are not ready for contact as yet. I love your (d)evolve concept...

But, I am a hopeless dreamer and believe that we may develop the necessary technology within the next 100 years to create ships like this.

I envisage a spacevator like the one theorised by Clarke, that would transport the material up to a station that builds the ship off-world. It would be expensive, but perhaps not as expensive as many imagine. I am assuming a drive with an artificial gravitational field can be created. (According to many abductees they were not in 0G on those craft so it seems possible). If you have the gravitational field you could then create what I have described and perhaps at a cost(for the interior in any case) of not much more than a cruise ship. If you used sustainable sytems that can recycle air, water, waste on board you open up a new possibility for the type of habitat. If you build it off-world you will not be limited to size and shape as you would if you launched it from Earth. I am a dreamer, but I like that part of myself. I am also very tired of the same-old-same-old ships constantly portayed in movies and tv series and books about space travel.

If you are going to build something why should it be a mix of Fear Factor/Big Brother/Survivor, why not have something pleasant that a normal person could live in for three years or more ?

qmantoo · Teaching the truth

and who will pay for it? It is just money into a black hole. OK, people are paid to create this ship and all that goes into it, that money will get circulated around and around, but as far as I can see, it would have to be made in space as otherwise the escape of Earths Orbit would take far too much energy. We just dont have the technology to do this kind of thing - unless we use other technologies which we the people dont know about.

Yes it is nice to dream, but we will never be prepared for contact with another race and it would be a massive culture shock. Think of moving to another country and then multiply it by 100 due to the billions more years these aliens have had to (d)evolve which we have not had.

Sorry, just a pipe dream.

We cannot even agree on the things we can see, feel, and measure on this earth so when it comes to space and other 'things' out there it is just a waste of time and one designed to produce a bunch of escapists. Far better to investigate the mind, and things which are here to study which we dont understand.

Chandre · Dedicated to the truth

That sound really interesting Eaol and something I would love to hear more about when you have details smile

Eaol · Veteran Member

The Thunderbolts Project might be working on an abstract for DARPA. It involves, basically, a spacecraft that can get us to another solar system and back in the next 100 years. A guy proposed it to us the other day.

Chandre · Dedicated to the truth

I read with interest yesterday an article that Joe Public is finally being invited to contribute ideas and suggestions on how to get this race off the planet within the next 100 years.

It is my personal opinion that this race should be quarantined and subjected to indefinite ‘planet arrest’ for the safety of the rest of the universe, but personal feelings aside.... I think I could come up with some pointers and not burn out my brain cells (which is what NASA and the other space agencies seem to be kindly saving me from by withholding whatever it is that they are withholding for my protection).

OK, here goes, my two cents worth as a non-scientific, ignoramus completely without credentials and therefore apparently in no way qualified to have an opinion on this matter until the moment they invited me to have one.

This is my PERSONAL opinion , it does not reflect the opinions of my family, closest friends, associates, work colleagues, fellow rover-watchers or the rest of the 99.99% of the planets population. No-one else can be held responsible for these opinions and if you (and you know who you are) wish to punish me for exercising my basic human right of having an opinion and a voice (rather loud at times), then PM me and I will tell you just where to find me.

Lets imagine that you gave me the project to manage.

The simplified goal is to get wo/man to Mars/The Moon/Uranus/(Insert destination here) and hopefully back in one piece.

How would I do it ?

1. I would leave the technical stuff to techies, trust them to supply the hardware and the stuff that runs it. My job is the biologicals required to make this official.

2. There would be no weapons of any sort on board the craft and no military personell. (What you cry in horror !) I’m not joking, when I say NO weapons, I mean NO weapons. Have you ever seen a peaceful first contact scenario which involved armed spacecraft ? Of course not ! First contact should be with geeky scientific types, hopelessly romantic or sassy explorers or missionaries, definitely NOT an armed GI Joe.

My recruitment policy ? Extremely simple !

1. You will be walled into a cave in Tibet for three months with no techno gadgets, a minimum of food and no contact with another human being. If you survive that, you will be shortlisted.

OK, jokes aside....

1. You need to be over 30 years old, as it appears that people under that age find it hard to be away from other people and social networks on hand held gadgets. There will be NO hand held gadgets on the craft !

2. As previously stated, you may not come from a military background.

3. You must not have a degree. A degree means that you have been subjected to ‘conditioning about reality’ that will in all likelihood mean that you will not be open to anything you may experience in a first contact situation.

4. You must have started reading science fiction at a young age and subjected your mind to the possibilities of other cultures, races, religions etc. Your mind should be as pliable as well chewed gum.

5. You should be well travelled and worldly-wise, having been driven from the moment of leaving the nest to explore your world, other cultures and ideas. An openness and acceptance of new cultures and experiences would be invaluable in first contact, as would a general personality type that is open and friendly and would feel comfortable in any situation. Being a social butterfly would be considered a plus for this job.

6. You should be well read and have an interest in philosophy and religion. You should be able to discuss these matters without being in any way threatening.

7. You should be single, nauts pining over loved ones they left behind would be a real downer on board the craft.

8. You should not want children and not have a fear of cancer.

9. You needn’t be Olympic-athlete fit, it’s really not needed and couch potatoes seem to have a better shelf life and tolerance of boredom and lethargy. A couch potatoe is unlikely to go mad and kill the other nauts because he did not get enough exercise that day.

10. You must be able to entertain yourself, unsupervised , for long periods of time.

11. You must like to sleep at least 12 hours a cycle, let’s face it the trip passes much quicker that way.

12. You must like to sleep alone.

13. You should be intelligent and innovative but not a genius.

14. You should be able to use a tool box and fix things and keep your head in a panic situation. You don’t need a technical degree, there will be a whole herd of techies back home to phone if things go wrong.

15. You should like to be alone.

16. You should not be afraid of death.

17. You should not be afraid of the dark.

18. You should not be afraid of aliens.

And as for the ship, well these are my ideas ;

1. The craft MUST have the exact same gravity of Earth, it is necessary for the health and well-being of the nauts.

2. Private quarters located at the perimeters of the craft as far away from each other as possible. This serves for privacy and should one area of the ship be damaged it increases the possibility of survival of some of the nauts. Also, if a naut goes crazy you should be able to effectively and easily quarantine them in their quarters and away from the rest of the craft.

3. Quarters should be spacious with a comfortable double bed, plenty of storage space, a PC and work desk, a private bathroom with a shower and WC, a window looking at the stars (with a metal shutter for protection), a couch and ‘lounge’ area with a flatscreen TV, dvd, music and games connectivity, a small fridge and tea-making area like in a hotel.

4. NO metal minimalism. Quarters designed according to personal tastes of nauts with the use of as many natural fibres and products as possible i.e wooden floors and furniture, thick carpets, feather duvets. Specialised lighting to imitate different natural light conditions on earth. Misters with aromatherapy in all living areas.

5. A central glass enclosed kitchen garden. A high tech kitchen adjacent to the garden except for the table which should imitate an old-fashioned country kitchen wooden table and chairs. Food supplement by fresh produce and herbs from garden. Live chickens should be considered as well as trout in a special ‘stream’ reproduced glass tank environment. As well as being therapeutic they will be part of the diet. Nauts should all be versed in organic gardening and livestock care.

6. No freeze dried bland meals here. Meals based on each Nauts personal preference should be prepared per week, well-balanced and nutritious to be supplemented by fresh produce. No refrigeration necessary, these should be frozen, vacuum sealed and stored in areas that are exposed to the vacuum of space. As I understand it that should do the trick in preserving it for long periods of time. These caches should be kept in different areas, perhaps work bays etc so that there is no chance one calamity would destroy all the food.

7. Kitchen garden should have hydroponic gardening as well as soil-based beds. Seedlings would need to be planted by Nauts on a rotational basis. Aromatic herbs and fragrant plants should be included. This area should fill the middle section of the craft with communal living areas radiating off it. Different areas should be separated in glass enclosures imitating earth regions and allowing for different plants and vegetables. A grassed area with a copse of trees should be included in the middle of the craft.

8. Fish tank should consist of one wall of a recreation area. Goldfish and small bright fish should be included in tank wall for colour. Recreation area should be carpeted and plush with comfortable lazy chairs, large screen and sofa areas. All modern entertainment options should be there. There should also be a large gas fireplace in here (see the recycling of human and chicken waste for natural gas to power this).

9. Exercise area should have those ultra-expensive NASA designed vibration machines and basic equipment. A steam room and a Japanese style communal bath area should be included.

10. A small reading room with two wingback chairs, fake book covered walls and enormous collection of e-books. The library should also contain paper copies, e-copies and DVD explanations in a step-by-step form by techies on how to fix/assemble every piece of essential machinery on the craft.

11. Air cleansing and water recycling plants to be an integral part of the craft. Plants to be used where possible for air cleansing and reed beds designed for water purification. Ozone to be included in purification process. Waterless toilets to be considered so that waste material can be safely recycled and used as compost in the gardens.

12. Temperature should be adjusted to imitate a temperate earth based climate with low humidity. Seasonal temperatures in keeping with Earth time should be followed.

13. Passages and areas Nauts travel in should be as natural as possible and should have pebble paths, paved paths, wooden floors and lighting to be as natural as possible. Water should be transported in clear tubes visible through the floors where possible. No cold metal areas in central communal areas. Walls should be painted in natural soft colours or finishes.

14. Only the bridge, medical area, work areas and the kitchen facility should be high tech and industrial.

15. Limited contact with Earth, this will keep Nauts focussed on the journey, where they are and why they are there. Perhaps some streaming of sports games and cooking and decor shows may be permitted based on Nauts personal preferences.

16. There should be 6 men and 6 women NAUTS, each having an equal say in decisions on board and in the case of landfall and first contact. A final 13^th vote would rest with the Ships Navigator in the case of a stalemate in voting.

17. There would be no quasi-military shipboard rules, basic rules of decent conduct would apply and the craft would run as a Democracy. After all, in first contact is that not what you would want to show the aliens that the best and most powerful countries on Earth are based on the principle of Democracy ?

18. Each NAUT is welcome to their spiritual beliefs but these should be kept private and respect should be shown for differing views and belief-systems. There will be no church/mosque/synagogue/temple/prayer room on board and no prayers would be said before any momentous occasion. Nauts will be free to express their prayers/pleas/rants to whatever deity they believe in, in the privacy of their own room.

19. In the case the craft actually does reach its destination, the Nauts should have a working knowledge of the equipment on board after the time to study it on the journey as well as the prescribed protocols for first contact.

20. Away teams should consist of one man and one woman. No more than three away teams to leave the craft at any given time.

21. No hand held cameras, helmet cameras only. (Blair Witch flashbacks not appreciated)

22. No wo/man gets left behind. Everyone comes back (in one piece or not) or no one comes back.

And yes, I would apply J