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TOPIC: chichen itza head (or martian sand that isnt martian sand)


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RE: chichen itza head (or martian sand that isnt martian sand)
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I found your thread.  Neat pics:

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=47797&p=3&topicID=34870237




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What is a little disturbing, is that NASA are telling our kids one thing and the evidence suggests another.

This kids education page (although not written by NASA) tells kids that the surface is 'dusty'

Mars is very cold, very dusty, and has a thin atmosphere that is saturated with carbon dioxide gas. Sometimes it gets so cold that the carbon dioxide condenses onto the martian surface.

Perhaps all the Martians live and breathe carbon dioxide and are really hairy so that they can live in these extreme cold temperatures? Maybe they are cold-blooded so they need to warm up with the sun? Maybe they stop working and hibernate in the Martian winter like Spirit does, due to not enough sunlight/heat from the sun?

Someone needs to take NASA to court for putting out mis-statements.

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I'll try and find your thread.

Sir Charles Shults wrote about evidence of rain on Mars and it makes a lot of sense.  

Some of the other weirdness you mention is also addressed. 


http://xenotechresearch.com/bookpromo.htm




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I think that we have an anomalous situation because the images of the dust storm (possibly constructed by NASA?) seem to indicate that there is a strong wind that blows failrl often but the fact that "sand dunes" do not move indicates that they are either glued in place or else the wind is not strong enough to move the particles.

I personally do not think they are glued in place by a crust because the images of the rover tracks seem to indicate to me that the ground is like traditional sand and we would see evidence of a break-up of this crust all over the place from activities by Martians - which we dont.

There are photographs that show what looks like after-rain evidence on the ground - where the rain drops have splattered the ground and made small indentations like a heavy rainstorm does on earth. (see my earth crab photographs for a similar effect on the sand here). As I say, it there was a crust formed by this interaction between 'rain' and sand, then we would see evidence of breakup by other things.

These "blueberries" appear not to be stuck in the surface crust but appear to be mostly resting on the surface because in a large number of them we can see the shadow and base of them. This means that the wind would blow them all about and they would roll to collect in places like against rocks. We dont see that, so either the wind is extremely light, or else something else is happening. Yes, it is strange.

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You're welcome!  smile

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thank you for your replies and links marsrock smile

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They use the microscopic imager to help them determine particle size.  We can't really tell particle size just by looking at a pancam image.  (The blueberries are the size of BB gun BBs by the way, if that helps give some perspective).  The stuff under the rover at this location is very fine stuff - but the rover has broken through the harder crust on the surface to get to that stuff - which is how it got stuck.  I think we have a protective layer of harder crust on the surface next to your rock, but I have no way to prove it. 

They are talking about both large dunes observed by the MOC, etc. and the smaller ripples observed by the rovers in the various articles I posted.  If you could find the example they refer to in the Harvard article I posted, it would help our understanding - since this is the only reference I could find to ripple movement.  Unfortunately, they don't say what sol that spirit observed this ripple movement at the rover level.  If we knew the sol number, we could do our own comparison and try to determine how much the ripple moved.  All we know from the abstract is that it was "perceptible."

It is clear though, that for whatever reasons, both dune movement and ripple movement is very slow on Mars.





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marsrocks: from a quick reading of the material youve provided it seems to me they are referring to the granules or the "blue berries" and also to the large dunes or ripples...the sand on my pic is tiny since it is next to a small rock?

the "sand" in my initial pics seems to me to be very fine..like sand or dust...the same dust that would gather on the solar panels...






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I believe that the wind is cleaning the solar panels.  Remember though that the dust on the solar panels is extremely fine - fine enough to get aloft in a very thin atmosphere.  When sand grains move on Mars, they would more likely remain on the ground - getting pushed along by the wind - more like rolling along than getting aloft, and would require much stronger winds to move them.





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what process cleans the dust off the solar panels?

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You may want to read this article:


http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2008/arch08/081105ripples.htm



Sand dunes and ripples do not move around Mars, at least as far as any observations can demonstrate. From the time of the Viking orbiter until the HiRise camera system, no dunes have been seen to move at all despite several planet-wide dust storms. Some research has suggested that a small dune on Mars might take more than a thousand years to move a meter. This is due to the low pressure of the Martian atmosphere—not enough force needed to push the particles can be generated by the speed of the wind if the atmosphere in which it blows is close to a vacuum.

Since the Mars Rovers have been unable to "feel" any wind even during the storms, support for the electric dust storm model advocated by Electric Universe proponents gains ground and Earth-based models of weathering on Mars breaks down. In fact, some dune formations on Mars appear to be frozen in place with a crusty surface that looks as if it has been eroded. Electrical theorists predict that the more scientists learn about these formations the less plausible the traditional explanations will become.

Most formative processes on Mars seem to bear little actual resemblance to textbook geology. The lack of movement and the hardness of the dunes (and the ripples) suggests that they were solidified and have remained in place since they were initially formed. In other words, they were glassified and fused together into immobile structures while retaining the appearance of loosely piled sand. Cathode sputtering and subsequent electrical deposition of the finely divided material onto oppositely charged regions across the surface could explain the ersatz dunes.


*****

On the other hand, there is an article here (again probably you have to purchase) which hints they have observed some ripple movement in strong winds at Gusev Crater:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007AGUFM.P11A0254S

"Perceptible crest migration of ripples composed of these grains occurred when high winds affected Spirit's site during recent global dust storm activity."




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the "sand" in my comparison pictures looks very fine ,fine enough to be moved by dust storms? remember that the dust that settles on the rovers solar panels gets "cleaned" by storms regularly...


but back to the original stone in this post..looks like the "eye" section of the stone was tampering because here I have isolated the line work and it looks like the only purpose of the "eye" was to obscure the rest of the lines...very interesting...

6hrjis.jpg

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Another article popped up on google when I entered the words:
"observation of ripple movement by spirit rover"

The first excerpt says:

"No MER observations document movement of a martian granule ripple."

Then it sends us to a scientific article link where you have to purchase the article.


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WGF-4W38RM0-1&_user=10&_coverDate=09%2F30%2F2009&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1287217984&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=e0488ab4710bb9d525bdd93bfc4e8116





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Okay, I googled it.  Dunes and ripples on Mars move very slowly if at all.



Ripples:

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mer/images-print.cfm?id=1150

Dunes:

Movement of Whole Martian Dunes difficult to detect or confirm:

http://www.nasaimages.org/luna/servlet/detail/nasaNAS~4~4~16462~120052:Movement-of-Whole-Martian-Dunes-Dif


"Careful comparison of the images revealed places where ripples on the surface of the dunes had migrated about 2 meters (7 feet) -- the largest movement ever measured in a ripple or dune on Mars. The researchers also saw changes in the shape of dune edges and in streaks on the downwind faces of dunes."

***

At Meridiani, they haven't observed any ripple movement.  

"Golombek has a hypothesis for why the ripples at Meridiani are static, despite winds, while those elsewhere on Mars may be actively moving. Opportunity has seen that the long ripples in the region are covered with erosion-resistant pebbles, nicknamed "blueberries," which the rover first observed weathering out of softer matrix rocks beside the landing site.  These spherules -- mostly about 1 to 3 millimeters (0.04 to 0.12 inches) in diameter -- may be too large for the wind to budge.

"The blueberries appear to form a armoring layer that shields the smaller sand grains beneath them from the wind," he said."

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-076


I haven't found anything yet about the movement of any ripples in Gusev Crater.  Maybe you can find something on that.

We do know that there are changes in rover tracks after dust storms, though, even a major dust storm doesn't erase them:

There was a large dust storm between sol 1239 and 1277, and we can see some changes here in the rover tracks.
Unfortunately, there are not many ripples in this area to compare.



Of course rover tracks are different than the ripples.  The rover is warmer than the ground and as the wheels make contact they heat up the cold ground - drying the soil in that area.  So, any forces like ice particles that were once holding the soil in place, no longer exist.

So there can be changes, but I haven't seen any changes to ripples in the Gusev area.  Maybe there is something out there you can find on the subject.



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marsrocks wrote:

Was there a dust storm between those two sols?




yes there were dust storms between those 113 sols

 

go here and search for the word "storm"

 

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status_spiritAll_2009.html

 

the are referring to dust storm of course

 

 



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Was there a dust storm between those two sols?



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getting back to the "martian sand" from the title of my post :


"We're rooting for our rovers to survive these storms, but they were never designed for conditions this intense" [29]. The key problem caused by the dust storms was a dramatic reduction in solar power caused by there being so much dust in the atmosphere that it was blocking 99 percent of direct sunlight to the rover Opportunity, and slightly more to the rover Spirit." from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_rover


seems like strong enough wind to blow "sand" away enough to make different patterns in it in 113 sols no?






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Oops, I meant to link to this traverse map:

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/images/mer/2010-02-08/MERA_A2158_travstat_4-full.jpg




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Here is a link to a traverse map:

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/images/mer/2009-11-12/mer20091112-full.jpg


This is a good link to find other traverse maps:

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mer/images.cfm





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Both sol 1907 and sol 2020 images were taken after Spirit got stuck in the sand trap at Troy.

http://www.physorg.com/news161316655.html

This may be its final resting place.

You can also see this rock in the Calypso pan - just in front of the rover.



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can someone pull up the path of this rover that took the 2 pics, 113 sols apart?

i would like to see if they drove around in a circle for 3 1/2 months and figure out why.

tampering, no weathering, is not the real question.


if they did come back, tsad, it was coz you nailed what they saw, the first time.


i see the mask face and other things pointed out here.

lol, why 113 sol diff?!









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tsad asked:...if the sand isnt disturbed as you say then what causes all those dunes we see EVERYWHERE?  and what of the dust devils?  what are you saying?
(I thought we had already agreed on this thread that the "sand" on this pictures is actually tampering)


I am only stating my opinion based on my observations, and not intended to be the opinion of others.  Opinions that differ from mine may well be correct. 

I have seen moc images where an area is re-photographed years later.  All of the dunes remain in the same place.  Seems more likely this is the nature of Mars.  The dunes likely formed during a warmer time - or if they change, they change quite slowly with the tiny bits of dust in the air that are able to move and settle from place to place.

I have seen what are said to be dark traces of "dust devil trails" in MOC images, but I don't recall seeing a picture from Gusev crater where a dust devil disturbed the soil - at least to any particularly noticeable degree.   The dust devil videos similarly show the dust devils sending relatively small bits of dusts into the air, and then the air quickly clears.  Maybe dust devil trails in a rover image would be something helpful to look for.  I have seen numerous pictures where the rover goes back to a place where it left tracks, and the impression of the tracks changed very slowly over time.









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marsrocks wrote:

 

tsad:  People can't carve clouds.  By saying you are unwilling to consider shapes that intelligent beings do carve in stone, you are saying you are only open minded to certain possibilities and not others.  This is your right to think this way, but in my opinion you are falling into a logical trap.  Better to consider who perpetuates this fallacy that clouds and rocks are the same. Who doesn't want us to look for possible conventional carvings in rocks?  Why not?  My common sense tells me that rocks and clouds are quite different.  Rocks maintain their shape for a long time making them a perfect medium for long term intelligent alteration.  Clouds do not have these properties.  They change shape in a matter of moments.  While I realize the long shot of any possibility proposed, I openly consider it, and don't dismiss it, simply because it looks like a face, an elephant, or a lion.

If we already know what is possible and not possible, what is the reason to explore at all?




 



I didnt say I was unwilling to consider shapes that intelligent beings had carved into stone..hello? I am the one who started this post with a picture of a mars stone that had what I thought were shapes that might have been carved into a stone by intelligent beings!

however...I am unwilling to go the route of finding mars rocks with cuts and grooves on them that MIGHT sort of possibly look like a face when the simpler explanation is that it more than likely is a natural rock formation...

yes rocks maintain their shapes for a long time and that applies to mars rocks that can be looked at many many sols apart and from different angles...not many mars rocks fit that description..usually we only have one view of one rock on one sol and nothing else...like a cloud looked at briefly but not long enough to see it for what it really is..a cloud..

I guess my last comment was in regards to trying to thin out the jumble of stones with "could be faces" from the more not so easy to explain "rocks"


dont mind me after all I am just venting...I dont want to stop any one from posting anything they like I simply said what I would not do...that is all...  smile


 



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tsad:  People can't carve clouds.  By saying you are unwilling to consider shapes that intelligent beings do carve in stone, you are saying you are only open minded to certain possibilities and not others.  This is your right to think this way, but in my opinion you are falling into a logical trap.  Better to consider who perpetuates this fallacy that clouds and rocks are the same. Who doesn't want us to look for possible conventional carvings in rocks?  Why not?  My common sense tells me that rocks and clouds are quite different.  Rocks maintain their shape for a long time making them a perfect medium for long term intelligent alteration.  Clouds do not have these properties.  They change shape in a matter of moments.  While I realize the long shot of any possibility proposed, I openly consider it, and don't dismiss it, simply because it looks like a face, an elephant, or a lion.

If we already know what is possible and not possible, what is the reason to explore at all?


[image]

[image]


[image]

[image]

[image]



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Looking for face-like shapes in natural rock grooves and scratches is like looking at shapes in the clouds and saying "that's an elephant" or "that's a lion".

I don't ever want to post a mars picture here where a shadow or pebble or a natural cut in a rock could be seen as an eye or an eagle or an alien face.

I have seen hundreds of mars rocks with shapes on them that "looked" like something familiar but could easily be dismissed as just natural shapes in rock formations.

we need as close to undisputed real evidence as possible or else we are just looking at clouds and seeing what we want to see...

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tsad wrote:

marsrocks...if the sand isnt disturbed as you say then what causes all those dunes we see EVERYWHERE?
and what of the dust devils?
what are you saying?


(I thought we had already agreed on this thread that the "sand" on this pictures is actually tampering)



confused.gif




and watcher I see how that oval "eye" shape is only more tampering as you can clearly see the outer lines go "underneath" the oval

 



-- Edited by Chandre on Thursday 8th of April 2010 05:56:28 AM

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Nicely spotted, it is similar and supports Tsads design origin theory...

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Hi great thread.. This is getting better by the second. Ive made a little discovery about this rock. Im trying my best to remove the wonderful gift JPL gave us (in Tampering.) Mars rocks , When I saw the oval face I thought the same thing but Instinct told me that was to easy.. After Looking around the rock and pulling back a few times I saw what they had done.. (really sneaky but affective)... The figure of oval face isnt. Ive checked and can see structure passing through. The outline is heavier. It dosent obey rules of shadow. The oval was put in to break up over all glyph image. This may be confusing bur im busy and will hopefully post up the image and explanation.

The basics are. The left oval, darker outline is tampering. The detail aon the rock passed under it and continues. We've been working on som,ething similar on the lunar surface. Its subtle but changes the face of what you viewing.

Hals words... Tampering creates anomalies that hides the true story.

Im pretty sure about this.. Had a case here in forum on Insect tracks that at end of thread had a similar story.

http://alienanomalies.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=47797&p=3&topicID=34817741



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A similar face appears in this Mayan work:

http://www.valleyanatomical.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=6&products_id=974&osCsid=eif7m81l0dfd3ia5oklrmderc3



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Watcher: as a first hand witness you know the pictures are obfuscated by the powers that be. If this is not clear enough I will try to generate a cleaner one with fractal algorithms. But what I see does not lend itself to many interpretatins anyway.

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Elvis.. Thanks for ost.. I think I can see what your pointing at but far to blurry and highly open to interpretation. We need clearer images that show clear shape and form. Just trying to push harder for clearer conclusion of images so that the general public can see that there is something there.

Nice work though..



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Details of the humanoid figure holding a loop and wand

Mars Grey 1.jpg



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Marsrock the glyph has already been cracked. So it's not like it seems .. it contains a humanoid figure holding a loop on one hand and a wand on the other. Furthermore the head of the figure is exactly the alien figure they promote on the collective imaginary of current earthilngs.


Let's build upon each other's already proven facts. confuse

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The large disc shape that serves abstractly as an oversized  horse's eye in the total view of the rock is interesting, and it does appear to contain a glyph inside of it:

 



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These are very small, but there may be other glyphs on the rock:

A monkey - from left view at top and right view in the bottom pair:

A bird standing on a globe:

Turned counter clockwise - maybe an eagle:



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head of a horse, sorry

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Yes as marsrocks says the oval encircling the humanoid figure stands out over. On one hand it is holding a loop. On the other one it's holding a wand. For me this looks like cave paintings on earth. There are two hands holding a glowing  "womb" inside of which the child-like alien figure painting shows. On the outside you can see an halo that extends to the right representing what looks like a head horse to me.

Mars Grey.jpg






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The right view shows two other apparent face-like inclusions in the rock:





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This is a little less obvious - because the contours are so subtle - but the large face has a smaller face within it:

[image]

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[image]

[image]

[image]

Notice the mask/face which seems to be physically separated from and on top of the rest of the rock (obvious in the watcher's post):

[image]


tsad, interesting find.  There are a number of reasons attributed to the lack of movement of soil on Mars.  One thing to consider is that the air is very thin - not vacuum thin like it is on the moon or in space, but still very thin, and so it doesn't carry with it a lot of force.  Also, maybe more importantly, Mars was once very warm and wet, but now that Mars is so extremely cold, much of that water is locked into the soil as frozen ice crystals.  The ice particles act to bind the soil together and hold it in one place - unless it is disturbed by something heavy - like the rover.





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Elvis, welcome. Thats some amazing photo work. Please can you post the image without the inserts so we can appreciate the full scale of the detail.

Nice work on the figure, and idea what its holding ?

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Tsad this is the most astonishing evidence in the carved Stone ... a grey !


Mars Art.jpg








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AliensRPeople2 wrote:

As Spock would say: "fascinating!!!"

Great find and welcome to the forum..

ARP2




thank you kind person smile

 

thanks to everyone who contributes to this forum..what a fascinating topic this is!



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As Spock would say: "fascinating!!!"

Great find and welcome to the forum..

ARP2

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Tsad... Yes the sands are definitely tampering.. Especially around your rock.. Actuall the rock is larger and is connected to the smaller rock on right of it.They are one piece.

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what does the forum make of the "sand" ..its tampering isnt it blankstare

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Conpare with Jpl Image.. All details are faint (tampered) This is a very important find... G Job

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thewatcher wrote:

OK.. Very very nice find.. Thx for JPL link,,

revh.jpg




wow...



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OK.. Very very nice find.. Thx for JPL link,,

revh.jpg

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Thx.. Perfect,, Ive seen a few images from that server and they always have the same problems for me (personaly) Theyre processed again. I prefer from as close to source as possible. The detail can be noticeably different.

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