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RE: Are Mars's pictures fractally generated?
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If ever there was a computer-generated montage of "images", these Mars "pictures" HERE take the cake.

--Frutty wink


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I forgot the link to the page in which the photograph appeared:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7140

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This is a picture of the first time Spirit reportedly photographed a dust devil on Mars.

dn7140-1_531.jpg

This is a contour analysis of the same dark photograph.

Anomalies.jpg




Please observe.

What in the original photograph shows like a plain in which a “dust devil” (in the white circle) could roam free, in the contour enhanced image is a big wall against the horizon

The zoom on the rectangle shows two big structures in the unapparent wall (just to concentrate on two of them, the picture is full of structures).

Further zoom on one of the structures shows smaller substructures. All of them pointing to be artificial if the landscape is considered real.

So in short:

  1. Either every inch of Mars is covered with artificial structures or
  2. Those structures are really fractals that account for the generation of these images.

Also notice that reportedly Mars has 0.7 % of the atmosphere of that on Earth, so those types of whirlwinds are unlikely to form on the Martian surface should the information be accurate.

-- Frutty

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Mighty HyperTerrains Vol. 2 - Advanced Applications



Mighty_HyperTerrains_Vol_2___Advanced_Applications_Training_112_1_img.jpg



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Some computer generaterd landscapes, can con the most cautious and experimented observer:

mars-rover.jpg

Mars Rover on a rough track


ref: http://www.virtual-lands-3d.com/mars-rover-on-a-rough-track.html


One of the most restrictive aspects of 3D terrains has been their confinement to up-down topography. This critical void in digital nature has been filled by Vue master Dax Pandhi. From over 7000 hours of trials in his laboratory, Dax has formulated the fractalmodeling technique that produces HyperTerrains.

ref: http://www.cornucopia3d.com/galleries/displayimage.php?pos=-43145

-- Frutty


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In a 2-dimensional image, what else can give us an impression of depth. The image giving us a sense of depth, does so only because it tricks our brains into thinking this from a 2-dimensional picture on a piece of paper(or screen). I know what you mean, it looks 'flat'.

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This is another example of what a fractally generated landscape fail to deal with: depth.

This is an official photograph of barren Mars by one of the Rovers.

256/2P162852676RADA800P2269L256C1


Anomalies.jpg

 

Background and foreground are a  Continuum.  Only shades of colors and shadows give us the impression of depth

-- Frutty


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NASA Uses LightWave 3D(2)

Source: http://stage.2-pop.com/VFXPro/News/article/69946
By Staff, February 2, 2004

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NewTek Inc. announced that LightWave 3D was used to visualize the journey and landing of NASA's Mars Exploration Rovers (MER), Spirit and Opportunity, in animations created by digital artist Daniel Maas, of Maas Digital, LLC., under the guidance of Principal Investigator Prof. Steve Squyres at Cornell University. LightWave is also being used by Zareh Gorjian, a member of technical staff at JPL, to create new images and animations to illustrate the current status of the vehicles on the surface of Mars, including a 3D anaglyph, by combining Maas' 3D model of a Rover with actual data received from Spirit. Dr. Eric M. De Jong at Jet Propulsion Laboratories (JPL) is overseeing that work.

Daniel Maas began work on visualizing Mars missions for NASA in 1998, using LightWave in combination with other applications, including custom plug-ins for physical simulations that were not available natively in LightWave at the time. "Most 3D elements in the video were modeled, animated, and rendered with LightWave 3D," said Maas. "Everything in the video is as accurate as possible to the real mission. I created an excruciatingly-detailed digital model of the Mars rovers based on blueprints from NASA/JPL. The model includes virtually everything on the real rovers down to every last nut, bolt and wire. I created similar models of the Boeing Delta II rocket that sends the rovers to Mars."

At NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratories, 3D animator Zareh Gorjian has been using LightWave 3D to create animations and stills to illustrate missions and concepts for about eight years. "I've made animations and stills for the Galileo, Mars Pathfinder, Mars Odyssey and the current MER (Mars Exploration Rovers) missions in addition to many other smaller missions and proposals," said Gorjian
. "Most of my animations are space-based, but I've done a few having to do with water and underwater scenarios. These days I usually render my animations at HDTV resolution (1920x1080) and sometimes in stereo HDTV, suitable for viewing with liquid crystal stereo glasses."

Videos of the MER mission animations can be viewed at:
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html
http://www.maasdigital.com/gallery.html

Stills of the MER missions can be viewed at:
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpegMod/PIA05137_modest.jpg
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpegMod/PIA05136_modest.jpg
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/targetFamily/Mars


Animation and Image Credit: NASA/JPL/Cornell
Animation generated by Daniel Maas, Maas Digital, LLC.
Directed by Dr. Stephen Squyres
Additional animations and stills by Zareh Gorjian
Directed by Dr. Eric M. De Jong
Rover and Lander Model by Daniel Maas, Maas Digital, LLC.

The PBS NOVA special "Mars Dead or Alive", which includes 6 minutes of new animation related to the MER missions, created by Daniel Maas, can be viewed at:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/mars/program.html


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Fractally generated asteroid

Asteroid.jpg

Asteroid - Cells components for the craters. Dented Cells and Fractal Cells for the surface crust. The image shown here was created in Lightwave, demonstrating that these cellular components work just fine with the DarkTree 2.5 simbionts.

Ref: http://amber.rc.arizona.edu/darktree/cellular.html

Page of

University Information Technology Services
Scientific Visualization Specialist

Office:
University of Arizona
UITS (Mountain and Speedway), Room 306
Tucson, AZ 85721
520-621-8258 (voice)
520-626-8346 (fax)

Email:
marvinl AT email.arizona.edu


-- Frutty no


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Anomalies Forum.jpg

You may not know it, but fractals, like the air you breathe, are all around you. Their irregular, repeating shapes are found in cloud formations and tree limbs, in stalks of broccoli and craggy mountain ranges, even in the rhythm of the human heart. In this film, NOVA takes viewers on a fascinating quest with a group of maverick mathematicians determined to decipher the rules that govern fractal geometry.

For centuries, fractal-like irregular shapes were considered beyond the boundaries of mathematical understanding. Now, mathematicians have finally begun mapping this uncharted territory. Their remarkable findings are deepening our understanding of nature and stimulating a new wave of scientific, medical, and artistic innovation stretching from the ecology of the rain forest to fashion design. The documentary highlights a host of filmmakers, fashion designers, physicians, and researchers who are using fractal geometry to innovate and inspire.

 

Ref: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/hunting-hidden-dimension.html

 

-- Frutty



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INTRODUCING THE MANDELBULB


Anomalies Forum.jpg

-- Frutty

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qmantoo although it would not appear that way I have been profoundly struck by this find and the implications therefrom.

I though by studying the fractals I had discovered constructions and my mind ran amuck imagining all those things were there.

Now I am back to the egg. I know nothing about Mars (except maybe from old books by Percival Lowell), and the 1924 signals from mars.

However the dream of the turtles will carry on. I'll step out of the bus, but this has been a very interesting experience which force my graphic skills to the limit.

Thanks  everybody for everything

-- Frutty.

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Maybe this is why all the backgrounds in space around the ISS are black these days, and it is not due to the exposure of the cameras as they say. It is all fairly frightening and if the military have developed realistic 3D holograms, which some people say they have, we could be seeing holographic UFO landings, aliens, and who knows what (including the Second Coming) very soon. Yes, I had not realised this kind of thing was so advanced. I suppose at some level we have to just trust... (although I do not seem to be able to put my faith in our governments at the moment) smile.gif

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I was not the first to realize this! smile

http://www.fractalforums.com/fractals-in-nature/fractals-form-mars/


I feel I have been taken in  ... again no


-- Frutty

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A fractally generated planet confuse

Fractal.jpg



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How to generate craters, planets, oceans etc ... nothing more and nothing less than by Cornell University biggrin

This project was written under the instruction of professor Bruce Land.

http://www.nbb.cornell.edu/neurobio/land/OldStudentProjects/cs490-94to95/nell/doc/doc.html

-- Frutty


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Suggestion to qmantoo, thewatcher, timewarp, goggog, levelwind, illumination, belgar, Chandre, papadipongo, Xenon and so many others whose hobby is to examine Mars images.

This Digital Fractal Landscape is made of 100% Math

FractalLandscapebytheOstrich.jpg



Save it to your computer. Zoom in … , hmm have you seen something like that in Mars’s pictures? Hmmmm …. See what we are talking about?

-- Frutty

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I am not shouting nothing. My previous options leave an open alternative for Mars landscapes beeing something out of the ordinary, according to the visual evidence presented so far.

Yes gmantoo. You are right. Fractals are infinitely zoomable for example in Mathlab (a software that allows realising graphical math artifacts). Not when a fractally generated landscape’s snapshot is saved.

Once you save it in jpg, png, PDS or any other format it won’t be zoomable anymore.

How many anomalies have we spotted in this forum? Is there a count on that? All of them contain rectangles squares ovals, pentagons, star shaped anomalies etc.

That’s why zooming in every image of Mars gives you headaches. They don’t make sense because they are fractally generated (or natural fractals)

For those who are not familiar with fractals I’d recommend this site that has some fractals background as well as graphics of fractally generated landscapes


http://www.miqel.com/fractals_math_patterns/visual-math-natural-fractals.html

I think I'll refrain from showing the experiment qmantoo suggests. That can be made by anywone that is interested in what we are discussing here.

Even if it can be prooved, nobody would accept they have been finding anomalies in computer fractally generated images (or a fractal planet) for years .

-- Frutty

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If you are going to shout 'Fractal imaging, it is all fractal imaging", then you should also look at images generated by mathematics and fractal programs and compare the two. That would be useful to the discussion.

Maybe take one of the fractal landscape images on that other fractal site, or the one you posted at the beginning, and compare it with an image of the crater or an area you say is being generated in a similar way. Then people could see the similarities or differences.

What the watcher is saying is that proper fractals are infinitely zoomable(if thats a word?) so that you can zoom in and the structure looks the same and is repeated at each and every level of zoom, which I am not sure this is what is happening here in these images.

Maybe the terms we are using are too loose and the term fractal is being applied to something which is not exactly fractal in its nature? Nevertheless, there is a strong pattern in these images.

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Elaborating further.


This is goggog's image posted on thread Anonymous Anomalies From Goggog on Fri Oct 22 14:41:31 2010 Original, harpened, stretched colors

/download.spark?ID=814797&aBID=47797

So in the previous image all the "objects coalesce into a single bulk of seemingly symbiotic objects mess. So this could point to either …

a) It being a computer fractally generated landscape or

b) The martian landscape is of a fractal nature, something not seen here on earth in our daily life. One thing are ferns being fractal in nature. Clouds likewise etc. And another ferns, clouds, horses, humans and every object obeying a fractal equation from the same Mandelbrot fractal set.

Question: what would somebody think if they found something similar to this in
their backyard? I would immediately call the press.smile

-- Frutty

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So to clarify things, this is not a fractally generated picture as you can clearly see where the dog and the log elements start and end. smile

Crackmoor%20farm%20039.jpg

-- Frutty

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Watcher, this is a neat example as you are very familiar with it, as you were the discoverer of the insignia in the payson panorama's object in lower left corner, remember? Well this landscape is fractal too. Look!

/download.spark?ID=813211&aBID=47797



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Watcher, the pixelation was done on purpose (which is not pixelation per se but separation of the blurred pixels), the single pixels are not what I refer as rectangled fratals, but the whole picture.

Abstracting pixelation out, I hope you can see bigger rectangles embedded into bigger rectangles and so on.

What you call pixelation occured because I had to separate the blurring of pixels which is another factor I had forgotten mentioning, happening in every single pic from astounding Mars, and which in goggogs thread (please take a look at it), we have been able to unveil, revealing what is a fractal landscape. You can tell it's fractal because you can't discern where an object starts and another ends.

I am sorry if the one that deviated was me. This should have been the first answer to the first image you posted. Sorry about that.

-- Frutty

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fruitnut1 wrote:

Watcher you are deviating from the main point.

I think gmantoo knows better what we are talking about here, accordig to the visual evidence.

-- Frutty




lol Fruit.. Take a deep breath .. My posts (when u check) react to a point within the thread.   initial post responds to pixelation.

That expands .. you introduce the dune problem.. and im responding in kind..

You say
Watcher you cannot tell the difference between computer fractally generated dunes, as you call them, and the ones you perceive as natural.

Fractals are the magic of math being able to con our eyes.


Explain clearly what you mean by fractaly generated dunes as my paste from wiki does agree with this.  You use the term fractal and ive got that by the throat.. Explain Fruit as its a term others need to understand.

And finally what are you saying here?
Watcher you are deviating from the main point.

I think gmantoo knows better what we are talking about here, accordig to the visual evidence.

-- Frutty

What  Is the main point?
That pixelation occurs from image link u submitted when you applied ur imaging process?
Volcanoes, imapact craters etc are a conspiracy?
Fractals are artificially generated in the center of Victoria crater?

Whose deviating from the main point or am I trying to keep up with the points in question brought up by you.

As for Gmantoo and imaging .. i judge  by what you paste up.. thats all we have.. 

TW


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fruitnut1 wrote:

By the way watcher the dunes (as you like to refer to them)  that you say look natural, to my eyes don't look that natural at all. And I mean At all ...

-- Frutty




Fruit.. You should know where I stand on this location by now. Victoria is a problem for JPL.  Now with regards fractals and the dunes.. I understand what youre saying but the deal with fractals is to look closer. thats what im doing.  There are many theories about that cental area. It looks odd. It certainly , at first glance looks artificial, now I want to see what actually is there with relevance to your theory.
At the moment I call these dunes as I have no other term of ref. That will change as we all start to understand what the images begin to reveal.

Cheers
TW

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Watcher you are deviating from the main point.

I think gmantoo knows better what we are talking about here, accordig to the visual evidence.

-- Frutty



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fruitnut1 wrote:

Watcher you cannot tell the difference between computer fractally generated dunes, as you call them, and the ones you perceive as natural.

Fractals are the magic of math being able to con our eyes.

-- Frutty




Ok Fruit.. You seem to have forgetten a very important fact about Fractals..

WIKI
Because they appear similar at all levels of magnification, fractals are often considered to be infinitely complex (in informal terms). Natural objects that are approximated by fractals to a degree include clouds, mountain ranges, lightning bolts, coastlines, snow flakes, various vegetables (cauliflower and broccoli), and animal coloration patterns. However, not all self-similar objects are fractals—for example, the real line (a straight Euclidean line) is formally self-similar but fails to have other fractal characteristics; for instance, it is regular enough to be described in Euclidean terms.

Fruit, Fractals are inherantly natural. We apply our very basic understanding of nature and try to apply it into a formulae. Look at the galaxies to Quasars,  Atoms  to gravitational fields. There is order in chaos.  That aside, I do think there is a very complex profound visual system at play (lunar especially). Its alien and its way way way beyond our scope of understanding at the moment.

Cheers
TW

 



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By the way watcher the dunes (as you like to refer to them)  that you say look natural, to my eyes don't look that natural at all. And I mean At all ...

-- Frutty

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Watcher you cannot tell the difference between computer fractally generated dunes, as you call them, and the ones you perceive as natural.

Fractals are the magic of math being able to con our eyes.

-- Frutty

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Nice.. Fruit.. Heres a closer look from your source file.

dunvic.jpg

On closer inpection the dunes look pretty genuine.. I think the featureless surround seems to present the central core as a more prominant feature.

Reminds me of this image.

phoca_thumb_l_Marsgolfball.png

Notice the central raised dome area.. (dunes) But of course soemthing else is going on..


I like ur theory.

Cheers
TW

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The impact crater theory is very young. Only one century or less and was not plainly scientifically recognized until the mid 1910’s, although there's no lab that can prove it.

I seriously doubt all circular depressions can be the product of impact craters.

Just the moon craters. Being the moon crater sequined all on its surface, no theory has been able to convince me that while on earth (notwithstanding the erosion arguments, accroding to wich water washed them away) only a couple of hundred craters are officially tagged that way, Mars and the Moon’s surface are fully scarred  with official impact craters. no

-- Frutty

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Watcher, craters, volcanos and dunes are part of the sham.

What I am trying to analyze here is the structure of the images. The main pont is: Is Mars landscape (or planet Mars for that matter) a big natural gigantic fractal ...

Or all those images so  many have spent years looking and zooming on are computer fractally generated ?


-- Frutty

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Hi Fruit.. Just looking at ur great image of core now.. just had a closer look at craters and area u higlighted below older crater.

vicdunes.gif
Ancient craters under dunes! Fascinating..
The subtle outlines of crater is picked up on enhancement.  A much younger crater is more defined (top left.) At first I thought this was an imapact crater but its hard to tell. It could be Volcanic but I do rmember seeing ray system off this crater so maybe its an impact.. its just  so deep and no flat pan base or central peak but i guess its maybe too small to effect classic impact traites.

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Fractal core at victoria crater ... better resolution ...


Anomalies 1.jpg

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Look at the core of the crater. It's abviously a fractal, as I'd mentined before


anomalies.jpg

Fractals me thinks lol smile


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Hey Fruity.. Even happier to see u pushing the envelope (keep on going kid smile)
Just submitting final graphic..

vicdetailq.gif
Ya the the structural patterns are interesting. You beat me too it. But have you noticed the cratering around Victoria? Impact and some volcanic but the bigger question is that there isnt any in the crater itself! HMMMM water me thinkswink.

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Hey watcher, glad to see you around.

Thanks for your help, which is most welcome so we can make this most interesting.


Anomailies Forum.jpg



The fractals persist , though hmm





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fruitnut1 wrote:

You are right, though the compression artifacts only give us a summary hint of what’s underneath. There are geometrical rectangles all over the area.

In previous studies of these images I understood them as cities. Now I am not quite sure.

Anomalies.jpg



Derived from high res image at

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Victoria_crater_from_HiRise.jpg

(4,045 × 5,085 pixels, file size: 3.03 MB, MIME type: image/jpeg)


-- Frutty

 




Hey guys.. Just thought i'd help out here..  Your image (fruit) is too big. Take image down to around 1mb Res the process in smaller areas.. .

vic.jpg

I avoid treating hires images (as a whole) straight off the bat. What you   need to take into consideration that the pixels are much smaller (in ur case) Most probably a closer cousin to a tiff file. My example is very rough but as u can see pixelation not present. Remember less sometimes gives more.

Cheers

TW



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You are right, though the compression artifacts only give us a summary hint of what’s underneath. There are geometrical rectangles all over the area.

In previous studies of these images I understood them as cities. Now I am not quite sure.

Anomalies.jpg



Derived from high res image at

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Victoria_crater_from_HiRise.jpg

(4,045 × 5,085 pixels, file size: 3.03 MB, MIME type: image/jpeg)


-- Frutty

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You have to remember these are jpg images and as such, are compressed and have compression artifacts which are often square or at least regular-shaped. Try and find a tiff or lossless image and check that for these square shapes.

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On the left official image of Victoria Crater On Mars (at http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/160148main_pia08813-516-annot.jpg).

Additional to its core which is fractal in nature, on the right I have desaturated it and then highlighted the edges of the picture. Rectangular fractals again all over. cry

anomalies.jpg




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You might remember this picture we discussed recently, purportedly showing the Opportunity Rover, stationed next to Victoria Crater On Mars.

Fractals conspicuously show all   over cry

/download.spark?ID=810035&aBID=47797




Also the Victoria crater RIm has a squarish shape to it, contrary to the most well known pictures of the famous crater on Mars


-- Frutty

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I meant to say that I think the Japanese JAXA images particularly remind me of artificially generated game backgrounds so they they could be mathematically created too. They are too 'false-looking' and synthetic.

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I had never considered this and it is an interesting idea.

Looking at the website, there are lots of examples of fractals in nature and some other good examples of fractally-generated natural scenes. I wonder if it would be possible to detect a fractally-generated scene? But then we are getting into pattern recognition which is a tricky and complicated mathematical area. I know there are some examples of duplicated rocks and stars etc which have been posted on the internet. Whether this is just humans tampering or whether it is software generated, we will probably never know.

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Are some (all ?) of the pictures from Mars fractally generated?

In goggog's thread "anonymous anomaies from goggog's" we have seen that every single square of the images published attributed to Rovers and whatnots contain fractals whether strange martian architectures or computer generated.

math-landscape.jpg

The picture above is a computer fractally generated lanscape resembling windswept sandstone.

Ref : http://www.miqel.com/fractals_math_patterns/visual-math-natural-fractals.html


Could it be we are further being fooled by computer generated landscapes? hmm


-- Frutty



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Some other alien stuff at http://anomalies.johnpeniel.com/
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