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TOPIC: The best so far.. 'Payson' Panorama by Opportunity


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RE: The best so far.. 'Payson' Panorama by Opportunity
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Here is an anaglyph of the image Chandre posted above.

Some members may find this image of interest.

There are anthropological shapes to be seen, which I believe are possibly land scuptures, as well as some remarkable rock formations.

The image has been cropped and resized back to 1024 pixels.


1P194675277_749_3D.jpg

Opportunity - sol 749


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This really is a fascinating area and we have lots more things to look at.

There are lots of images of the area I am going to highlight, they are taken from the NASA Rover Raw Images at http://marsrover.nasa.gov/gallery/all/opportunity_p749.html

I tend to work with the raw images in black and white for the rovers as its far easier on my eyes than the other ones.

I have highlighted the areas of interest in this image and numbered them. We have examined the area numbered 5 in another post and someone suggested it looked like a chain ??

Image number 1P194675395ESF645NP2543L5M1

1P194675395ESF645NP2543L5M1 Harry 2.jpg

Qmantoo posted the highlighted area in a post about things coming out of rocks. This much clearer view suggests something far more disturbing (in my opinion) as well as supporting the theory of transparant structures in Payson

Image number 1P194675277ESF645NP2543L2M1

1P194675277ESF645NP2543L2M1 Harry One.jpg

There are plenty of really good quality images of this area on the page listed above for you to have a look at and then we can discuss what others may see there ...

TW, these are the images I mentioned to you a few months ago...

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thewatcher wrote:
By the way.. Could you prove to me,  that the pedestal is as much a rock as  as Im GOING to prove that this is an anomaly?  personally I  think this Object ( I'll meet u in the middle evileye)


The pedestal isn't made of rock? That was my assumption.

I have evidence that it's made of indigenous rock, but I can't prove it, just as I can't prove it's made out of any specific material.

I look forward to seeing what you've found.

thewatcher wrote:
One thing that puzzles me.. How did you get to you gray scale image as its an interesting process and very different from many others Ive seen or used?

I did not do any processing of the images to get a grayscale image. The images are directly from JPL/NASA and then zoomed in and saved in a format for easy display on the website.

 



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PIA02695-mark12.jpg

More digital facts The arrow points to a structure that are relatively easy to see.

Erebus 3,2.jpg

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OBrien wrote:

 

thewatcher wrote:
You've commented on , what I can only describe as 2% of the anomaly? ... what about the other 98%? The pedestal? The raised relief?
The "nail" was significant to several members but was trivial to prove that the hypothesis has no merit. All it took was one counterexample to show the hypothesis false.

The pedestal and raised relief require more research. Many images (left Pancam, right Pancam, different filters) need to be examined, and combined to give the best possible image. Searches of images of the same rock on different days from different angles need to be carried out. I have found some, but do not think they provide any useful information.

Coming to a conclusion about the rock requires far more work than proving that a small rock in the distance was not a nail head. I am continuing to look at the issue, but do not have anything conclusive yet.


I understand your posting on the technical details,  The discussion spanned out into a very important area, close to my martian heart, one could say! I think understanding the power of gray scale ,which youve explained quite clearly, is is important!  I Felt  A new thread to keep it alive for future ref.

The "nail" was significant to several members but was trivial to prove that the hypothesis has no merit. All it took was one counterexample to show the hypothesis false.

I never mentioned the triviality of the Pointed area of nail head. In fact Im pleased you located it..   This statement ..


I have found some, but do not think they provide any useful information.

Coming
to a conclusion about the rock requires far more work than proving
that a small rock in the distance was not a nail head. I am continuing
to look at the issue, but do not have anything conclusive yet.


rounds off nicely what youve found and gives a little of your opinion. Just nice to see it typed out, positive or negative.  An abrupt end just seems to me unworthy a reply but i do know youre passionate about the subject so I did!

I have been looking for alternative angles  for the said PEDASTAL and really have come up with nothing more so far. But I do have an interesting image that I will be posting later showing the Pedastal to be a bit more that Just an unproven rock.

By the way.. Could you prove to me,  that the pedestal is as much a rock as  as Im GOING to prove that this is an anomaly?  personally I  think this Object ( I'll meet u in the middle evileye) Is a prime candidate for the public (if proven).  My initial post gave up an untreated image (zoomed) and its brought about a few questions and very strange facts, in imaging, that were mocked only a few months ago. I thank you for explaining the gray scale paradox with Jpl imaging. We've been exploiting this for quite a while! Harry wasn't so mad after allsmile.

One thing that puzzles me.. How did you get to you gray scale image as its an interesting process and very different from many others Ive seen or used? I will start a thread on this, this evening (for selfish reasons but maybe interesting for others).

TW


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thewatcher wrote:
You've commented on , what I can only describe as 2% of the anomaly? ... what about the other 98%? The pedestal? The raised relief?
The "nail" was significant to several members but was trivial to prove that the hypothesis has no merit. All it took was one counterexample to show the hypothesis false.

The pedestal and raised relief require more research. Many images (left Pancam, right Pancam, different filters) need to be examined, and combined to give the best possible image. Searches of images of the same rock on different days from different angles need to be carried out. I have found some, but do not think they provide any useful information.

Coming to a conclusion about the rock requires far more work than proving that a small rock in the distance was not a nail head. I am continuing to look at the issue, but do not have anything conclusive yet.

 



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thewatcher wrote:
I suggest OB opens a thread on image quality.. as i dont really want that subject to drown out the hunt around Payson Crater.

Sorry for the unintentional straying from the topic. I was responding to direct questions posed to me.

 Sorry TW for disrupting the thread with an image discussion. All posts relevant to that discussion have now been moved from this thread to http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=47797&p=3&topicID=37967648

Chandre



-- Edited by Chandre on Tuesday 31st of August 2010 12:53:04 PM

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OBrien wrote:

Clearly "nail head" is on ground in distance far beyond rock


Hi all , Thread has expanded interestingly guys..

Just need to deal with a couple of things.. The Nail on the head.. Actual the flat top of the nail on the head.. I haven’t had time to check it but It sounds completely viable (will check when ive got time).. Just one thing.. You've commented on , what I can only describe as 2% of the anomaly? Triumphantly, I may add.. GJ lol (slipped my mind to check 2nd image cheers)... what about the other 98%? The pedestal? The raised relief?   and what the other contributers have found?  Im sure the fence you sit on must be buckling under the weight of ones thoughts?

With regards O’Brian’s images of pedestal.. He is absolutely right.. I have stated a number of times over the months, that gray scale on lower res gives more detail than what s commonly believed hires would.. I find it an interesting paradox, O’Brian, as Chandra noticed the consequence of this interesting quirk. More detail, in this case, structural anomalies (I see them Chandresmile). Your post ended with no other thoughts?  Very interesting.

I stated in my original post that I was posting an unaltered image..  (ok I altered the size).  That was a very deliberate act.

Heres where the tech heads got a headache:

I don’t see any mention of this in your posts O'Brian but I think its important for readers to know the full story of the fly in the ointment for most so called color  imaging experts.

Heres  a taster from a paper by Ron L. Levin*, Lockheed Martin IS&S, Building 5,

1300 S. Litchfield Road, Goodyear, AZ85338-1599 ABSTRACT

 

As of 2004, five scientific spacecraft have successfully landed on the surface of Mars. Each of these spacecraft have carried, among other instruments, at least one color imaging system; however, the color calibration of images returned from Mars has been a source of continuing difficulty since the first pictures from the Viking 1 lander in 1976. All five lander imaging systems were calibrated on Earth prior to launch. Additionally, four of these five landers had onboard calibration in the form of color calibration charts which were held out in the ambient Mars illumination. Calibrations of these color imaging systems made on Earth have proved unreliable due to the long time elapsing between instrument calibration and its actual use on the surface of Mars. Color calibration charts held in Martian ambient light have not completely solved the problem because the coloration of the ambient illumination is still unknown. Current scientific opinion holds that large amounts of red dust in the Martian atmosphere renders both the direct lighting and the scattered skylighting to be heavily colored toward the red. This means that color calibration charts, whether in direct sunlight or in shadow, appears redder on the surface of Mars than they would under ordinary lighting conditions on Earth1. As a result of this uncertainty in Martian illumination, the final published images from the Martian surface show a great variation in color calibration. Published images show sky colorations from gray to pink to orange. Landscape colorations have similar variations2.

Read full doc
here

That’s why I find it so interesting that bandwidth is chewed up on TRUE color when it should be called Best Approx Color. Being honest its best guess wrapped in a pile of algorithms with a few important variables missing, like TRUE incidental/ambient light readings etc. Unfortunately, this also affects the grayscale images too as they are calibrated as color. Now all this sounds quite glib, on the contrary, its good news,  more detail can be recovered and in some cases we can get under the tampering.

 

@FRUIT hey, love the image

 

6yhdeo.gif

 

Ive long thought there was more on the panel. I can just see it in your enhancements.. It seems to be attached to the raised insignia. Better check with second image or im sure OB will spot it.. Could do ith MarsRocks  animation.
Great job.

 

Ive been away with family so its been hard to post these last couple of days.  Fascinating posts just so little time these dayswink to enjoy the debates.

 

Chandre - GOGOG -Iceman -Gmantoo-  great posts too.

(Qmantoo edited out the formatting part at the top. Hope you did not need it for anything!)

 

 

I suggest OB opens a thread on image quality.. as i dont really want that subject to drown out the hunt around Payson Crater.



-- Edited by qmantoo on Tuesday 31st of August 2010 04:12:00 AM

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Iceman I am glad you are exploring enhancing techniques.

Two observations after your enhancing of the images.

The one at the bottom shows a transparent structure right in the center of the pic,  which proves conclusively gmantoo's discovery and what I posted before, and subsequently could point to energy fields molding the landscape somehow, or shielding it from invaders or some other purpose I cannot fathom.

Second the blue stuff is not sand. Just as all of the forum affiliates know already, it's  nothing but more martian structures diffused by obfuscation techniques.

-- Frutty

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 More expanded stuff from the Payson
PIA02695-mark12,2-sharpened 1-L.jpg
PIA02695-mark12,2-sharpened 1-R.jpg

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Чандре пишет:

fruitnut1

1296597?AWSAccessKeyId=1XXJBWHKN0QBQS6TGPG2&Expires=1283990400&Signature=G9NbWH65KnGlQKnxeTnYzVAvu%2BU%3D&1281715149

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Discovery по thewatcher

Источник изображения: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20060913a/Beagle_L257atc-B937R1_br2.jpg



Beagle_L257atc-B937R1_br2.jpgBeagle_L257atc-B937R1_br2111.jpgBeagle_L257atc-B937R1_br211.jpgBeagle_L257atc-B937R1_br21111.jpg

Beagle_L257atc-B937R1_br21.jpgBeagle_L257atc-B937R1_br2121.jpgBeagle_L257atc-B937R1_br21211.jpg

 



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TW, theres a solar glyph on the left side of the column. I noticed it in Fruttys image and took a closer look at OBriens images and there it is, clear as day.

Iceman, this is a fascinating are. I can't wait to see what you think of the left section of this panorama...BUT...you must look at the black and white images.

Heres a number to get you started

1P194675395ESF645NP2543L5M1

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1296597?AWSAccessKeyId=1XXJBWHKN0QBQS6TGPG2&Expires=1283990400&Signature=G9NbWH65KnGlQKnxeTnYzVAvu%2BU%3D&1281715149

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Discovery by thewatcher

Image Source: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20060913a/Beagle_L257atc-B937R1_br2.jpg

Payson_Panorama_in_False_Color.jpg


6yhdeo.gif



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PIA02695-mark12.jpg

These clips from the main image appear at first sight not much to arouse interest.
I want to ask you to focus on these images.

Imagine you're viewing photos taken from a considerable height, and these images are of the earth.
You can see many details not covered by category gravel, rock and sand. Good luck.

PIA02695-mark12,1.jpg

PIA02695-mark12,2.jpg

 



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Sol744B_P2351_L257T-B744R13.jpgSol744B_P2351_L257T-B744R131.jpg

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Several items for further consideration.

PIA02695-cut2,2,1.jpg

PIA02695-cut2,2,2.jpg

1

PIA02695-cut2,2,3.jpg

4

PIA02695-cut2,2,4.jpg

2

PIA02695-cut2,2,5.jpg

3

These are just little bits of big. This project is not completed, it is still much to see beyond the dirty window.



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You are right, O'Brien.

metaphor.jpg



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Going back to the original images, the "nail" head is conclusively proved to be a small rock in the distance, about 1.5 m beyond the rock.

Image from left Pancam
1P194231229EFF640DP2351L7M1

Image misinterpreted as nail head on top of rock

Picture 14.png


Image from right Pancam
1P194231229EFF640DP2351R1M1

Clearly "nail head" is on ground in distance far beyond rock.

Picture 13.png


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After seeing qmantoo's discovery of trasnparent entities subtly apperaing over the region, and comparing this to some Watcher's enhancements of VIctoria crater, I think we are missing energy fields here.

Once more in this image after extreme enhancing of  Iceman's view,  the same transparent structures pop up, pointed at by green arrows on the left. On the right some kind of idol/being in the middle of the scene.


Anomalies.jpg






-- Frutty

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aww

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Thank you goggog, Did you notice the ironically smiling rock near to the white line?
It reminds me at qmatoo's avatar.

qmatoo's avatar-sim.jpg

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ICEMAN
clap.gif


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PIA02695-exa-cut1.jpg

PIA02695-exa-cut1&2.JPG

PIA02695-exa-cut3.jpg

We never look to close to the subject.
It's still more to see,.



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LOL, Q I did not mention it as you had already pointed out it was far too easy...

Its there, clear as daylight, the pedestal, the glyph and the 'nail' and something transparant around it all....BUT, in context of the rest of the image....what is it ?

I think we need to understand the larger picture in this case to understand what the pedestal means.

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Wow. Thanks for that. I understand now. I understand that I completely missed the main thing in front of my nose!!

I thought the reference to ice was the see-through, ghost-like figure which I thought that I had found - which was why I said it was too easy. smile.gif

two points I should make.
1) the outline of the figure is really life-like but I must say that I do not think aliens on mars or anywhere else for that matter will look like us, so it IS quite a bit of a coincidence that it is such a good likeness (in my eyes, anyway).

2) there appears to be a blue 'blob' along the shaft of the nail head which looks to me as it it might be part of the background, however, in the processed picture that I gave, it appears to be a nail, just like you say. This might be one aspect of the see-through nature which you say the rock/pedestal has.

I find it really strange that no-one else mentioned the (now!) obvious nail on the top and glyph on the slope though.

Thanks for for your long explanation.

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Gmantoo I can understand ur frustrations so I'll do my best to be as CLEAR as possible!

I gave the location of anomaly in image below + the links to 3 Formats available from JPL.

I purposefully avoid arrows (when possible) as  We are interested in images that mostly stand out for themselves! This is an ethos that we try our best to stick to. This allows us to filter out as much background distractions as possible. Believe it or not we dont enjoy using SPARTAN Imaging techniques to reveal some anomalies, due to the constant arguments  about  creating anomalies from our interventions. Of course this is far from the truth, in most cases but we do keep an eye on that inherent  problem.
SecretPlanets is getting Closer -Amazing image revealed

This small structure (in image insert) raises the game in anomaly hunting. Standing at around 12 inches high,  The pedestal slope's gently forward . The panel section slopes at an angle of 45 deg's. A raised single relief pattern  can be seen on angled fascia on top of pedestal .. At the highest point of the panel is a thin nail like object. 

Now, I presumed you could see this obvious anomaly standing way above the surrounding terrain? Its very very clear and theres no need to point an arrow at it.  The insignia on the angled panel was the icing on the cake!


panelcloseup.jpg
(Panel Close-Up above)

Below has a yellow box showing exactly where it is in relation to landscape!

Payson_Panorama_in_False_Color


And then the final image Showing anomaly below..

pedastool

Your response was this:


Thats too easy. give us a harder one !!! haha

Now forgive me if im wrong, i presumed through your sarcasm that you'd acknowledged the find?

I had very little else to say on the matter at that point and was waiting to see if anyone would respond.

After ICEMAN and Chandre stated to dig thoroughly around the site (great work I must say) You stated this:

No-one has found the ice carving yet then ?

Not quite sure what Iceman has found. Can't really identify them at all.


So I waited to see what you were talking about...

You posted this image..

marked_payson_pedastool.jpg

I could see your outline but We thought  it was a crop area of a dubious nature blurring and cutting out structures underneath which were connected to the cabling coming out of the bottom left  of the anomaly. I had also used SPATAN to target the main body of anomalous structure. The results were interesting to say the least. The background was starting to come through parts of the main column. This was difficult to show on screen so I  elected to hold back on that info for the moment until I could be clear what was going on. It was as if the structure was made of glass and JPL tampered out most of the translucency.

This statement by me may've caused a little confusion..
I meant to say , best ice seen so far!

That was a play on words. I was wanting, in the back of my mind, to say
Best Ive seen so far! But after detecting more strange focus points on image, I found myself thinking about the transparency of the find while typing that out.. Maybe you picked up on this and went somewhere with it?

I threw this in to show that there are clear structures that the public can relate to. even though they may not understand what they're are viewing.

Anyways.. Thats it.  I spread myself thinly between a few sites. I have lots of emails and try to deal with a lot of imaging questions and queries from me too.
Cheers
TW


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thewatcher - Can we have more information please?

It is rather like being asked a question, us giving an answer, then not knowing if it is correct or not, we are left hanging there...

Yes, we have found things, but we do not know if this is what you found and whether you found something else that we did not find.

Since you asked the original question and started the thread, could you come back to us on this one please?.

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I meant to say , best ice seen so far!So what did you mean by this then? I thought this was what you were trying to get us to find. Because it was a ghostly like shape and virtually clear, I thought you meant that it was like ice - see-through.

If it was something else you wanted us to see/find, then what was it you found?



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qmantoo .. Your discovery.. never noticed it.. Great Find..smilesmile

Chjandre & ICEMAN... WoW.. Very very interesting..  Maybe The pedastool was some kind of marker ?

Great Job Guys






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Not my discovery at all, but possibly the one thewatcher was trying to get us to find in the first post.

We will have to wait for him to come back and show us the result we should have got. I do not know if I have found all that there was to find in that part of the picture.

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qmantoo пишет:


qmantoo,Excellent findhandshake.gifaww

 



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OK, since no-one has apparently managed to see this, I will try and describe what is there.  I took the picture in the first post and 'processed' it to reveal what I think thewatcher has seen.

It is the outline of a mans head as outlined by me in green. It is really quite subtle and I feel there could be other similar images superimposed on this one, although I am not sure. The yellow line appears to mark some kind of join and the red outline - well, I am not sure what that is.

The human profile is very life-like and it is a big coincidence if this is just a case of pareidolia.

If it is not a coincidence, then we have to ask ourselves how it got there?

The picture I have processed is here in case the forum software or the size of dots on our screen does not enable us to see it.



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This particular site has given me nightmares for over six months.

There are anomalies aplenty, nice work Iceman biggrin

I am looking at one small area only. If you want to know what it looks like to me, IMHO it looks like a collapsed facade of a linear building.

Sol744B_P2351_L257F-B744R1_br2 One.jpg

Look at this lovely carved bit over a doorway or a window including a triangular detail above it at 12 o'clock and what could be the tops of two fallen (and matching) pillar lying below on either side at 6 and 9 o'clock

Sol744B_P2351_L257F-B744R1_br2 Two.jpg

Sorry, I made this too big so its lost some detail...but it looks like a skull and a helmet to the left of it

Sol744B_P2351_L257F-B744R1_br2 Three.jpg

Some sort of carving extending out from the facade, note the shadow and lines
Sol744B_P2351_L257F-B744R1_br2 Four.jpg

This looks like some sort of roof in a different texture and colour (greyish) A bit has broken off the right and part of it is lying below with some interesting carving and a circular bit. There may be another piece further down to the right as well.

Sol744B_P2351_L257F-B744R1_br2 Five.jpg

I will add that the bit that has been giving me nightmares has effectively been covered over with tampering in this panorama...interesting....confuse


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Item 2.jpg

Item 2-Drawing.jpg

Vehicles to travel on water and land, very common on Mars.
This could be two things perhaps.



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No-one has found the ice carving yet then ?

Not quite sure what Iceman has found. Can't really identify them at all.

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Chandre wrote:

TW, your link points to another image ?

Found the right one here...

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA02695.jpg



So sorry .. Late nights.. too many craters..
On top of image gives dif res versions..

Browse Image | Medium Image (325 kB) | Large (6.3 MB)


The Anomaly
Payson_Panorama_in_False_Color

Cheers Chandre for picking that up..

TW

 



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TW, your link points to another image ?

Found the right one here...

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA02695.jpg

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Here are some things worth giving attention, though I do not defined it in detail I would like to point out that the craters are not as common on Mars and on the Moon and NASA wants us to believe. This is a process that NASA uses to color your world of ideas to make you unable to think independently.

Dependence and mental wandering individuals may tell you to educate yourself in those studies that NASA offers, but the truth is that there is no equivalent static educational program to discuss, just broken collection of wicked ideas.

Well back to work....

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Teaching the truth

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Thats too easy. give us a harder one !!! haha

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Veteran Member

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I meant to say , best ice seen so far!

Take care guys.
Remeber, the biggest enemy of science is common sense.

We are not alone...

Your faithful hunter.
TW

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Ok hunters.. This is a piece of gold That Harry's sharing with you all. This a small part of a larger story that  has many questions than there are answers.

But...

1. Its clear.
2. No tampering removal .. YET!
3. Absolutely is not natural.
4. Its a structure that is alien
5. Unambiguous

Now I leave the rest up to you guys..
This is what the public needs.  So here u go!!

Cheers Harry!

Image Source: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20060913a/Beagle_L257atc-B937R1_br2.jpg


'Payson' Panorama by Opportunity

The panoramic camera aboard NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity acquired this panorama of the "Payson" outcrop on the western edge of "Erebus" Crater during Opportunity's sol 744 (Feb. 26, 2006). From this vicinity at the northern end of the outcrop, layered rocks are observed in the crater wall, which is about 1 meters (3.3 feet) thick. The view also shows rocks disrupted by the crater-forming impact event and subjected to erosion over time.

To the left of the outcrop, a flat, thin layer of spherule-rich soils overlies more outcrop materials. The rover is currently traveling down this "road" and observing the approximately 25-meter (82-foot) length of the outcrop prior to departing Erebus crater.

The panorama camera took 28 separate exposures of this scene, using four different filters. The resulting panorama covers about 90 degrees of terrain around the rover. This approximately true-color rendering was made using the camera's 753-nanometer, 535-nanometer and 423-nanometer filters. Image-to-image seams have been eliminated from the sky portion of the mosaic to better simulate the vista a person standing on Mars would see.

Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/USGS/Cornell
Browse Image | Medium Image (325 kB) | Large (6.3 MB)


The Anomaly
Payson_Panorama_in_False_Color

SPARTAN was not used on the below image.  Heavy tampering was detected on main structure giving a dark tone.

pedastool




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