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The numerous pictures of recent earthworks and disturbances would indicate that there are still various groups working up there. In photographs taken by the rovers, we have seen parallel lines made by bigger machines and smaller areas of disturbed ground made by small somethings... so I think there is evidence that there is still a fair amount of different species living there.

Unless we have other theories as to their cause? (OBrien?)

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in my opinion currently there arent alien beings on Mars
the anomalies we ve seen seems to point all in the same direction : we see ruins and we see mechanical or metalli debris.
so there was a civilization, but its gone or extinguished in a late past.

im open to think that there is a certain % that alien bases or strongholds are hidden somewhere on Mars, maybe in the underground.
If they lead activities in our solar system or nearby, its quite reasonable that they ve advanced bases somewhere near us, just for a logistic reasons, at then end also their veichles must have necessities to be resupplied of fuel or propulsive energy or hangars for reparation.

so yes, i feel there could be some bases there, maybe not of the same race that builded the ancient ruins, but of course Mars, as Moon, would be obviously strategical positions to lead activities in our zone.
and from the moment that i belive they LEAD activities in our zone....

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Teaching the truth

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OK, thanks for these links. Although I have not looked at the pdf yet, I wonder if they show examples from Mars?

That would be interesting and would show that their knowledge and research is based on real-life examples rather than just a learned paper on the academic subject. As I say, I will read up more about this and find out.

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qmantoo wrote:

Thanks O'Brien, I thought you might have left because we have not seen you for a while.

Anyway, do you know of any good clear examples of localised weathering that we can look at please? As I keep on saying, it is just strange that there do not appear to be many about.

I notice the conclusion mentions spheroid rocks due to weathering - does that happen a lot in places on Earth?



The Moderation Team has made clear the limits they expect from me. I will only post when I do not violate those expectations.

Here's a list to get you started. It's from 2007, so there's probably plenty more from these and newer authors. http://www.psi.edu/pgwg/MarsRockBreakdownReadingList.pdf

Spheroidal weathering is not necessarily the same as the generation of spheroid rocks. See
http://geology.about.com/od/geoprocesses/ig/chemweathering/spherweather.htm

 



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This is an interesting thread for beginners showing the differences between different types of weathering on Earth

http://geologicalintroduction.baffl.co.uk/?cat=6

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How about sediments, like carbonates, their age and  their distribution ? Are there any on Mars and on our Moon ? Are there any datas avaiable ?

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Thanks O'Brien, I thought you might have left because we have not seen you for a while.

Anyway, do you know of any good clear examples of localised weathering that we can look at please? As I keep on saying, it is just strange that there do not appear to be many about.

I notice the conclusion mentions spheroid rocks due to weathering - does that happen a lot in places on Earth?

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qmantoo wrote:

There must be some good scientific papers about it but this is an abstract from this one. The actual article needs a subscription

...


It does not actually say much except that many on Mars resemble Earth weathering processes.



The conclusions from the article are:

(1) The Martian regolith comprises a wide variety of landforms and a complex geomorphologic environment. Generalisations from widely spaced or regional data should not be interpreted to be conclusive of specific locations or of the planet as a whole.

(2) Although Mars is much colder than Earth, has a thinner atmosphere, higher radiation flux, and much greater rate of impact bombardment, the detailed geomorphology shows many similarities to that of Earth. While the Moon also has significant numbers of impactors that shape its surface, it lacks the complex aeolian and other weathering and landscaping processes seen on both Earth and Mars.

(3) There is considerable opportunity for understanding the detailed geomorphology of Mars through terrestrial analogues, not only in extreme terrestrial environments such as the Atacama desert or the Antarctic dry valleys, but through features found in both hot and cold deserts in many parts of the world.

(4) Many of the small-scale weathering textures, including honeycomb and pachydermal textures, case-hardening, surface varnishes, and soil crusts are strong, albeit indirect, evidence of the activity of moisture films in Martian weathering at both landing sites. Occasional near-complete spheroidal weathering of some rocks indicates that such processes are locally intense. The duration of such moisture films, and whether or not this process is currently active at these sites, is not known.


 



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that ****e has to hit them in the face.

makes ya want to kill em sometimes.


i don't like some dweeb making a 30yr career out of finding water on mars.


where's he live. lol!

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There must be some good scientific papers about it but this is an abstract from this one. The actual article needs a subscription
The search for evidence of water on Mars has been a principal objective during NASA's current 2003 - 2004 series of Mars Exploration Rover (MER) missions. The missions were designed to explore the Martian surface for signs, past or present, of liquid water.

However, some attention has also been given to other erosional and landscape processes that may be inferred from the abundance of images now available. On Earth, the main physical weathering processes are frost weathering, salt weathering, and wetting and drying. These processes commonly result in exfoliation, spalling, and granular disintegration. Some of the forms present on the Martian surface also suggest that chemical weathering has taken place.

There are also diverse aeolian processes that, in addition to dune forms, result in small abrasion forms on exposed rocks. NASA's recent MER missions imaged numerous micro- and meso-scale features on the surface of the planet, many resembling the results of these terrestrial processes. Using imagery collected by NASA's Spirit and Opportunity rovers, we describe and categorise features using a basic geomorphic classification and compare a number of these features with possible Earth analogues.

Our comparisons show that many of the features on the surface of Mars could be formed by processes common on Earth. We conclude that in most cases it is not necessary to seek complex or exotic processes to explain Martian geomorphology.

It does not actually say much except that many on Mars resemble Earth weathering processes.


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yes i was surprised myself when i found out.

i guess with the delay time in controlling the rovers and having to be cautious, they've done

pretty good.

as to the climate, mars no doubt is probably at earth extreme. difficult for life but not impossible.


very long hibernation or laying dormant till conditions get better. there might even
be year round
habitable areas we haven't found yet.

i saw a ngeo show recently and they were in peru or chile up in this desert that was the driest

place on earth. something stupid like no rain for 250,000 years lol. but they had found
signs of human habitation.
sooo...

in your op,

"However after all this talk of burrows going deep underground, I do not see much evidence of freeze/thaw mechanics on the rocks like we have here on Earth, as we all know that continuous freeze/thaw of water cracks rocks and eventually on Mars over thousands of years they disintergrate into scree or rubble."

yes good observation.


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The Rovers dont travel very fast do they, so 16 miles in 5 years is probably not bad going assuming that they stop and take pictures etc.

I think any adjustments would not mean developing serious anti-freeze for use in the Martian winters on the surface. It would more likely mean going underground away from the cold and developing more comfortable living conditions.

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gbull, is 16 miles the total distance the Rovers drove ? Was that all.....

If so we really have found a lot in that small area !

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16miles qman.

that's it.


they saw that much too!


until u and i get there, we have to take their word.


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you are working under the assumption that is the truth.

temp fluxs can be delt with.


if there is life on mars it has plenty time to adjust.


800million yrs.

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I made this comment in another thread where we were discussing the weather, but I think it should really be discussed in a thread of its own.

***
It is strange how all these beings can survive such harsh winters - where are all the deep burrows and underground bases etc? How come we can see so much evidence above ground of civilisations? Their heating and air conditioning systems must be really really good !!
***

Anyone who believes that there are civilisations on Mars, cannot believe the story about the weather. The two things seem to contradict each other as I have pointed out above. I just wonder how far underground you would have to tunnel to escape from such harsh temperatures as we are told exist. It is an important point, but one which first assumes that there ARE alien beings on Mars.

If there are aliens, then the evidence is such, that they do not live underground as we see their cities and we see evidence of animal/alien shelters. I suppose they could be summer shelters and they go off to the deep tunnels in the winter, but again, I have not seen evidence for all these entrance holes that go metres underground to escape the freezing cold. There would be evidence of tunnelling and waste from the soil dug out. But I see Nada, nothing, zip, zilch.

Even where the Rovers are located at the moment, which is between 2 and 15 degrees South (I think), we are told that the weather is not particularly nice in the winter. I would expect some kind of better shelters if things were chilly and I would expect to see some kind of evidence of bad weather when the Rovers wake up for Spring.

I suppose these aliens - if they exist - could have totally different biology and cell structure so that they can survive in minus 40C temperatures. Even here where I live, they have temperatures of minus 10C and it is very cold. I am not an alien biologist so I dont know. All I can do is wonder....

However after all this talk of burrows going deep underground, I do not see much evidence of freeze/thaw mechanics on the rocks like we have here on Earth, as we all know that continuous freeze/thaw of water cracks rocks and eventually on Mars over thousands of years they disintergrate into scree or rubble.

Where is the evidence? There isnt any it seems.
I am still waiting for weathering evidence from these large sand storms and dust devils which Software Pyrate will be providing me with...I wont hold my breath.






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