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RE: Was Percival Lowell Right?
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I am sorry to bother you onee more moderator but could you please erase this thread altogether? I realized after posting it, I was wrong and in fact I was tampering the images, so I would not want to mislead future visitors into thinking something might be wrong with these photographs. Thank you 

== Frutty


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I have a picture Showing people on March with no breathing apparatus or a radiation protection Equipment.

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Chandre wrote:

I think we have a good thing going on the Forum.

We post our ideas and finds, everyone that wants to comment does, we work through things, add bits and occassionally (like in the case of tampering on the images) we reach a consensus.

Its about teamwork and lots of different perspective on what is being presented and discussed. We have lot of strong personalities and associated egos here and sometimes its not as much what is being said but rather how it is being said that causes friction.

No one person can say that they have submitted 'THE' image yet that changes everything. Some of us (my own ego included) would like to think that we have provided images that are so clear and so convincing that you would have to be blind not to change your prejudice about life on Mars and the Moon....BUT the fact is that no matter how clear it is to us ... the public just don't get it ! And as long as they don't get it it ain't true (so to speak).

I believe that we are chipping away at the wall that stops the public from seeing what we see. We are attacking it from every angle, we are trying to clean up the images, we are looking for patterns, we are examing every 'rock' we turn over, we are looking through the 'holes' to see what we can find, we are even examing things through the magnifying glass.

Each of us brings a different aspect and strength to each thread and together we are a formidable team, one I am proud to be a part of  biggrin




You are right Chandre we must understand that people in this forum are not the kind of people that watches TV all day long (Well I used to but not anymore wink) or that are easily swayed by headlines without further inspection into the facts.

 

I think between us all we have already proved that intelligence is expressed onto the planet. I guess the only thing that needs to be changed (and that's a big endeavor) is our effort directed to trying to find life as our own or the one we are acquainted on earth. I have found many things that lead me to believe the "life" on Mars is no carbon based life like here on earth, including declarations by Carl Sagan when Viking landed on Mars on the 70's. We must get rid of the paradigm of life on earth and be prepared for , life not based on carbon, cyborgs, hybrids, robots or even something we have not  the slightest idea what could be but we can prove it moves or has a purpose.

 

-- Frutty.



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I think we have a good thing going on the Forum.

We post our ideas and finds, everyone that wants to comment does, we work through things, add bits and occassionally (like in the case of tampering on the images) we reach a consensus.

Its about teamwork and lots of different perspective on what is being presented and discussed. We have lot of strong personalities and associated egos here and sometimes its not as much what is being said but rather how it is being said that causes friction.

No one person can say that they have submitted 'THE' image yet that changes everything. Some of us (my own ego included) would like to think that we have provided images that are so clear and so convincing that you would have to be blind not to change your prejudice about life on Mars and the Moon....BUT the fact is that no matter how clear it is to us ... the public just don't get it ! And as long as they don't get it it ain't true (so to speak).

I believe that we are chipping away at the wall that stops the public from seeing what we see. We are attacking it from every angle, we are trying to clean up the images, we are looking for patterns, we are examing every 'rock' we turn over, we are looking through the 'holes' to see what we can find, we are even examing things through the magnifying glass.

Each of us brings a different aspect and strength to each thread and together we are a formidable team, one I am proud to be a part of  biggrin


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At least know the name of the biggest liar in the history of mankind (four digits)

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Hey watcher, lol, Not sure entirely what you mean, though good input on the exif data format.

This makes clear that at least we can reach concensus on ESA photoshopping their images. This is a good start, because if everybody agrees that ESA is photoshopping images, everybody will agree that trying to find traces of "hidden pixels" in the photographs they publish, is a scientific method as valid as any other, and will give assurance to investigators to break the barrier and start using image editing programs in trust and obtain results that several people, including myself have found before, but because of some kind of taboo it is forbidden to use, if we want to find results that are accepted by others and let us reach concensus.

The question of ego, I think you are missing something here, I have been trying to share for several weeks the knowledge I have gotten by experimenting on this field (as well as you do, for example what you did with Hale crater, is an independant confirmation of what I have found in the area, not to mention several other findings of yours), so if I was so egotistical as you are perceiving I would not deign even share this knowledge with people interested in the same subjects.

We are not perfect and sometimes you get bored by the reaction of the public to things that are already evident to you, but with a little understanding from the parts, everything can be worked out.

I think your work is great but just as mine, it's still missing to prompt people to say Hey guys this man is showing us something valuable. no

 

So that's what I think.

 

Thanks friend,

 

-- Frutty



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Fruit..  prepping images for the web, of course Photoshop or any other good graphics package was used.. Its basic.. didnt you know that? So why burn the bandwidth wanting to know what package theyre using? Total utter waste of time..  What you want are the anomalies ya? the encoding of Jps and gifs  etc are still the same.. In the meta-data on the images  you will find what they used.. So fruit.. ESA used a graphics package that is available to the public to convert iots local imagery data for everyone to see and of course they tampeered the images.. so did the Indians and so did the  Japanese, Russians etc... SO?  Its all over their servers.. Whats the home work needed for us to do?? You need to do some homework on imaging formats and imaging metadata. Its basic and for the point your  talking about.

To show the images at ESA are photoshopped and see the exif info you can download a free program (for personal use) called wildbit Viewer. It's awesome as it let's you zoom in almost to the top additional to other features. This is an example of what I found in the cydonia region on esa at this address http://www.esa.int/images/305-230906-3253-6-co1-Cydonia_L.jpg. (The images of NASA don't include any exif info addtional to its size)

Yup well known..

So lets get this straight..

Exif data.. or I call meta data.. is?
Exif was created by the Japan Electronic Industries Development Association (JEIDA). Version 2.1 of the specification is dated June 12, 1998..

Heres a big question Fruit.. What format were alot of the images we look at taken  in.  Save you googling... FILM Read

And.. this is a big one..

Looking through this forum .. which I know you shouldve.. (home work) Whats the average year we Spend our time looking at. Where we find the most anomalies...  Ya know.. Apollo .. etc.. and the year that format Exif was created in? See why most of Nasa's Luna Imagery dont use exif? They do have meta data.. But with all forms of this data I wouldnt put my life on the reliability of the info as even I can change it for any image!

So the Meta data .. ( which the Amerians coined)

What was it designed for?
  • Date and time information. Digital cameras will record the current date and time and save this in the metadata.
  • Camera settings. This includes static information such as the camera model and make, and information that varies with each image such as orientation (rotation), aperture, shutter speed, focal length, metering mode, and ISOspeed information.
  • A thumbnail for previewing the picture on the camera's LCD screen, in file managers, or in photo manipulation software.
  • Descriptions and copyright information

So Nasa Had this info , sometimes etched on film.. Logged by some poor guy in Houston whom checked their shooting schedule.   Logged in on processing, whatever but I dont think pumping up info showing what package ESa used via there Renamed.. Re- patented graphic information system, metadata.. or what they call it in ASIA ... Exif , makes any point at all.. Just look at the type of image and I think NASA withall its faults would be damed to by a licenece to do something that well, they invented.

But if we show ourselves apathetic to contributions from the other members, not commenting, not asking, not even telling why they agree or not, and in general crossing our arms, we are not ever gonna reach  concensus that's for sure


You mean the work YOU showed Fruit?
The work that YOU think should bring down NASA to its Knees?
Is it YOUR work that we are apathetic too? lol.. 
You should be aware of your own posts.. Go read em.. try to soak up the feelings and notice how you react to others posts..
FRUIT you obviously have a lot to learn.. Dont blow it now..
Your not the first.. and you wont be the last to feel what you feel..  Just dont let your Ego get in the way of the truth.. As for the moment i feel your drifting. Control the sarcasm and humble that tone and hopefully the feed back you want, personaly i think its the help from this frum you badly need. You know it and I know it,

I dont think we'll take this further here I'll PM you..
Really dissapointed at that statement and that will NOT  improve the quality of your percieved feed back.

TW


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Chandre wrote:

Frutty, it was between this time and about 1920 that the mindset changed. I think the Victorians must have been amazing and open-minded and innovative when you look at how much was done and discovered in that era, unfortunately it all change in the early 1900's and a 'dark age' seems to have descended. Sciaparelli seems to have been a very intelligent and lucid man that contributed much to the sciences at the time, I find it hard to believe that he hallucinated or imagined what he saw on Mars, remember this was done when Mars was the closest it had been to Earth in 'modern' times and in those days there was less pollution etc so it must have been clear to him when he made the maps. What I cannot understand is why its different now, just over 120 years later. Did they drain the 'seas' using canals and what we now call the 'tubes' and find a way to store the water underground, did it evaporate... so many questions, all speculations as we cannot know the true answers with the data we have at hand.

Frutty, remember, what you see and perceive is different from what I may see and perceive, or thewatcher or OSD or ARP2 or any other member.

Our perceptions are in many ways like rose-tinted glasses, influenced by our education and life experiences. In many cases we will project our personal experience onto something. This makes it hard to reach a consensus on the work we post here as something I see as clearly as day may not be at all visible to you. 

Everything we post here is speculation....its unfortunate but its a fact ! There is not one image on the Forum that everyone will point at and agree, 'thats the one' the smoking gun no




Remember Mr Skipper showed in his book there are considerable amounts of water in big lakes. It would not surprise me if the rest is hidden behind layers of tampering.

I have shown ESA images to be photoshopped. It can be done by anyone. Just go to their site. Download an image to your computer. See the EXIF (Exchangeable image file format) data; it shows it was retouched with photoshop, it displays the adobe phjotoshop version and also the date the tampering was made. I am posting an example here .

Cydonia Mars Exif info.gif

So if everybody does the homework it can be proven that ESA is using photoshop to retouch their images.

But if we show ourselves apathetic to contributions from the other members, not commenting, not asking, not even telling why they agree or not, and in general crossing our arms, we are not ever gonna reach  concensus that's for sure.

To show the images at ESA are photoshopped and see the exif info you can download a free program (for personal use) called wildbit Viewer. It's awesome as it let's you zoom in almost to the top additional to other features. This is an example of what I found in the cydonia region on esa at this address http://www.esa.int/images/305-230906-3253-6-co1-Cydonia_L.jpg. (The images of NASA don't include any exif info addtional to its size)

I hope you realize what I mean if we seek the truth we should find it together and look for consensus otherwise we are going nowhere, and I guess I am wasting my time here no

 

 

Frutty



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Frutty, it was between this time and about 1920 that the mindset changed. I think the Victorians must have been amazing and open-minded and innovative when you look at how much was done and discovered in that era, unfortunately it all change in the early 1900's and a 'dark age' seems to have descended. Sciaparelli seems to have been a very intelligent and lucid man that contributed much to the sciences at the time, I find it hard to believe that he hallucinated or imagined what he saw on Mars, remember this was done when Mars was the closest it had been to Earth in 'modern' times and in those days there was less pollution etc so it must have been clear to him when he made the maps. What I cannot understand is why its different now, just over 120 years later. Did they drain the 'seas' using canals and what we now call the 'tubes' and find a way to store the water underground, did it evaporate... so many questions, all speculations as we cannot know the true answers with the data we have at hand.

Frutty, remember, what you see and perceive is different from what I may see and perceive, or thewatcher or OSD or ARP2 or any other member.

Our perceptions are in many ways like rose-tinted glasses, influenced by our education and life experiences. In many cases we will project our personal experience onto something. This makes it hard to reach a consensus on the work we post here as something I see as clearly as day may not be at all visible to you. 

Everything we post here is speculation....its unfortunate but its a fact ! There is not one image on the Forum that everyone will point at and agree, 'thats the one' the smoking gun no

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Chandre I was looking in detail at Schiaparelli' Map and there are regins called mares = "seas" and oceans.

 

Mars Map.jpg

 

Notice from German

Wasser = Water

Untiefen = Shoalds

 

In what moment in time They erased the then commonly accepted belief that there was water on Mars? In what exact date we lost our way?

 



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Spare your "speculating" chandre, people in this forum are way beyond the mainstream, you bet cha. wink

 

-- Frutty



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Are you aware that Percival Lowell was influenced by the works of Giovanni Virginio Schiaparelli http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Schiaparelli This was the map produced by Schiaparelli in 1877.

300px-Karte_Mars_Schiaparelli_MKL1888.png

Now we are speculating, I wonder if there is a link between these 'channels/canals/lines' and Class A (very large) worm activity ? That may explain the differences in the observations and the changing landscapes over time...

Google claims that similar lines on Earth maps are a result of the scanning process by the surface boats, wonder how they will explain away the lines in these images as well as what was observed via telescope 100 odd years ago...



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Another theory occurred to me. Maybe I caught their tampering algorithm running. It is tracing the terrain to deduct what  features it must obscure . lol wink

 

-- Frutty



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fruitnut1 wrote:

SOrry about all those typos aww




BTW GM if you inspect the original this outtake shows almost blanked out. yawn



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SOrry about all those typos aww

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qmantoo wrote:

The straight lines always confuse me. What purpose would they serve - particularly since they must be very big on the ground and I do not think they all go from A to B, so I dont think they are transport roads etc..




GM, I don;t have the slightest idea because it's the first time I found something like this. Like I told you it popped up after applying filters. At first I thought it was product of the untampering because how come can thisese line traverse diferent typpe ot terrain without suffering deformation? But inspecting very close I thought there wasz more to it than what outr logic woud mandate so I decided to post it to see what you guys might coe up with.

 

It should be the product of a very advanced technology, no doubt about it (well there are always doubts but minimal). Masr is a pandora box. confuse

 

 

Frutty



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The straight lines always confuse me. What purpose would they serve - particularly since they must be very big on the ground and I do not think they all go from A to B, so I dont think they are transport roads etc..

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Percival Lawrence Lowell (March 13, 1855–November 12, 1916) was a businessman, author, mathematician, and astronomer who fueled speculation that there were canals on Mars, founded the Lowell Observatory in Flagstaff, Arizona, and formed the beginning of the effort that led to the discovery of Pluto 14 years after his death. The choice of the name Pluto and its symbol were partly influenced by his initials PL. (Wikipedia)

 

Here are the maps he mapped of Mars

Lowell_Mars_channels.jpg

And here is an area I was working on while unphotoshopping the material the rectilinear patterns ALONG WITH WHITE CIRCULAR SPOTS popped up!

Channels 1.jpg

 

 

-- Frutty

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



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