Alien Anomalies

goggog · Teaching the truth

RE: triangles or arrow-head-shaped rocks and raised rock on sand dune

qmantoo · Teaching the truth

With respect to the triangles and small sand dune etc I have found a context picture showing the area in question (just in front of the left corner of the rover) in a much larger context and may give some other clues.

qmantoo · Teaching the truth

I think the Rover erosion should be in a thread on its own because there is a lot to say about this subject.
For example. This picture shows really small wires exposed to the elements - even smaller than you were showing. These are on the edge of the solar array and although they may be solid wire (as opposed to stranded wire), they would still be subject to erosion from the elements. Some places show no sand or soil in the recesses where the nuts and bolts are located and some show these filled up. Over the course of the rovers journeys, you would expect some places to be more exposed than others and at different times to different amount of weather conditions. This means that everywhere would get dusty and dirty in the amount of time those vehicles have been there. But... as you say, there is no dust or dirt on these solar arrays. That is strange because this picture is taken on sol 1900

qmantoo · Teaching the truth

Yes, thank you very much for your detailed explanations and diagrams.

It certainly looks as if these are pretty exact but I think our critics would say that the angle of the photograph would make any calculation or measurement difficult. However, from these diagrams, it seems to me the triangles are too exact for wind/other erosion to have made within the bounds of normal probability.

Do they have weather data collected by the Rovers? I do not think I have seen this data if they have.

ICEMAN · Senior Member

Mars triangles-messure-inaccuracy.jpg

More detailed study of the Mars triangle.

I am unable to see the wind in the picture so I thought to myself to keep with what the subject invited me to in this research, and hope this will help us to arrive at any conclusion.

ICEMAN · Senior Member

Minor consideration in the form of the triangle

triangles-drawing 2.jpg

Mars triangles-messure.jpg

One single drop · Senior Member

Experts are people who have stopped asking.

I am no expert. To get a solide opinion, you have to get solide datas. I do not have access to solide datas, but in my opinion a similar kind of wind erosion as going on in aride areas on earth is to be expected to happen on Mars. Erosion is a main term, there are many erosions working together during erosive processes. In the Sahara desert for example abrasive wind erosion goes hand in hand with erosion by temperature differences. Cold in the night followed by extensive heat in the day. As a result of shrinking-extension processes fissures appear and the rock starts to crack.
There are always two participients: The erosive forces that work on the material and the nature of the material itself.
To come to realistic clues about the processes on mars, we need to know which kinds of rock, magmatic, sedimentary or metamorphic ones, are involved and we need a bunch of true weather datas. Winddirections, windspeed, nature of the underground ( abrasive substances- sandblasting ? ), humidity, airpressure and temperature.
It is all about patterns. It would be "unscientific" to rule out the possibility of mother nature to be capable to create "a triangular rock on top of a triangular rock pattern", but the conditions under which this "construction" was build, would be worth a closer look.

Wind and water are diffractioning substances out of substance mixtures and collect together pieces of same / similar mass and origin , concentrating them in certain points. The socalled "Blueberrys" are consisting of ironoxides and should be heavier than the rock they had been imbedded before. I do not know the diameter of these spheres, but blueberrymarbles of one cm in diameter should have a considerable mass. Each image we get from JPL/ NASA gives us the impression of static. We know that there is no static, no matter if we are aware of it, no matter if our instruments are capable to detect it: There is always movement. We need some repeated observations of the same areas, to see the/a difference. They , whoever it is, still prefer to present a static ( dead) Mars to the audience.

Rover Erosion.

Imagine a small car, full of electronics and mechanics driven by batteries, remote controlled from 200 million miles away. Today it is driving through Antarctica ( - 70 o Celsius ) and tomorrow it is driving through an indian summer in Kanada ( + 12 o Celsius ). Over years. Still functioning.

The different materials have to compensate the extension-shrinking processes. Not to talk about storms, not to talk about chemical ingredients working on the material.

Watch the condition of the isolation of the wires. The wires are not embedded or protected by a metall shield, which is risky. These wires are a weak point, similar to a fissure in a rock, where the erosive forces start to work at.

The Construction teams expected a lifetime of one year and weight had to be reduced, so maybe they constructed the wires in a way they thought they could survive 12 to 24 months.

Watch the condition of the isolation of the wires after all these years.

Six Hypothesis:

The rovers are constructed by using high sophisticated materials, still not avaiable to common industries today.

The rovers are not on the surface of planet Mars.

The Rovers are on the surface of planet Mars, but are routinely maintained and repaired over there.

The conditions on Mars are quite different to those expected and still told to the public.

The Joker ?

All the hypothesis are wrong.

2P304114899EFFB1E5P2390L6M1- II.jpg

qmantoo · Teaching the truth

OK, then OSD, maybe you are the person to give an informed opinion about the rocks on mars we are discussing in this thread.

1) Are there signs of wind erosion? Particularly around the bases of rocks and the 'sand-blasting' effects of these dust devils and high winds that are reported to be common there.

2) Is it likely that wind erosion would create a triangular rock on the top of another triangular rock. Both triangles being about the same angles and shape? Ignoring the wind for a moment, is it likely that a natural rock type would produce these shapes?

3) I think that the blueberries and other pieces of debris would be piled up in places out of the wind, but they are not. They are scattered fairly randomly everywhere wherever on Mars they are found. - IF there was a significant wind there, they would be blown around as they are so small and light. Is this a reasonable assumption?

I am not a scientist or qualified in these areas of science. Also I only have common sense to go on, so I may not always get things right.

One single drop · Senior Member

Solid as a Rock ?

There are three main categories of rocks.

Sedimentary rocks, created and modified by hydrous and organic activity .

Limestone, sandstone and chalk ( The cliffs of Dover ) are members of this group. Some sedimentary rocks are of pure organic origin, the chalk for example .

Magmatic rocks, created and modified by fire. Basaltes, granites and regolithes belong into this group.

Metamorphic rocks are rocks which have been transformed by pressure and heat. A sediment for example may change into something different , looking different to what it was before with completely different characteristics.

Some schists and gneis are metamorphic rocks.

The processes of creation and transformation/destruction are in fact one big process. It depends at which point you would interrupt it to take a look.

An outcrop of granite for example could be weathered to sand .

Put this granite sand under a microscope and you`ll find the three main composition parts of granite are still there : Quarz, feldspar and mica. Still present in the sand. Two million years later , the same sand , now a rock again, forms the sandstone slabs of your house floor.

I wrote about different types and mechansims of erosion this morning and lost the text after finishing due a silly mistake. So I gave up for the moment.

White desert/ Libya or Arcadia Planitia/ Mars ?
Wind erosion or etching by chemical erosion?

One single drop · Senior Member

Key question:

Which kind ( type , types ) of rocks , we have to deal with in the images ?

qmantoo · Teaching the truth

I thought it would be interesting to see another viewpoint
If you were making one of those triangles perched on a rock like this(bottom right corner), you would need to cut out triangle-shaped rocks from somewhere else. (wild speculation). Strange how the "weather" has managed to cut at least two such triangle-shaped pieces from this triangle-shaped rock. Must be the water freezing in the cracks in the triangular rock.

Software_Pyrate · Veteran Member

Who knows....

Maybe after a little more wind erosion.....

We will be able to see a little more arrow heads....

lol

Software_Pyrate · Veteran Member

I just wanted to say....

I do think there is something going on on mars, and yes your OP does look similar to an arrow head. The jagged edges does kinda make ya wonder.

If there was a few more "relics" or couple more arrow heads...then I would not be so inclined to think it is natural erosion.

Software_Pyrate · Veteran Member

Hey, believe me, I'm all for jumping on a band wagon....but it has to be a little more than this.

Its your OP. I think you should be the one to provide the "evidence" that it is NOT erosion of any kind.

Why would you think its anything else, and Make a leap of faith. Just because of the position? because of the shape?

I mean....did you see little foot prints that I did not?

"Please do not try to show me Earth wind erosion evidence when we are discussing wind erosion on Mars. "

As for showing earth based erosion.....isn't that the logical thing to do? First compare to "known" samples of erosion. Why wouldn't somebody compare to earth erosion, it would make NO sense not to...unless you wanted to say it is something else. Then I guess, it would be OK to throw out all "known" geological processes known to man.

Yes, I do agree that it is in fact a different planet, and thus, having different characteristics, BUT, the physics are still the same over there as they are over here.

A rock can get eroded the same way there as it can here...+ or - the water part.

Saying that the way it is sitting or the way the dirt is under it is NO reason to jump off the deep end and make a leap of faith and make some exotic reason for why the rock is sitting the way it is.

Just ludicrous IMO.

qmantoo · Teaching the truth

So you've got a clear movie clip from a rover-that clearly shows dust devils.
but you do not believe there is any wind erosion?
The image you have provided clearly shows wind erosion.
If you mean the dust devils, No, it does not. It proposes to show wind acting in circular motion in the form of dust devils. What it does NOT show is wind erosion of rocks and around rocks.

Now, maybe if you are so certain that there is wind erosion on Mars, you can show me some examples of wind erosion ON MARS.

I am not saying that it does not happen, I was merely saying that you would have thought that the blueberries would have been blown around and there would be evidence of wind erosion around in the pictures of rocks we have.

But here is some more rocks..."pearched" so to speak. Doesn't look like any body "placed" them there to me..

Please do not try to show me Earth wind erosion evidence when we are discussing wind erosion on Mars.

Notice that all my examples are "rough edges" so to speak....due from wind erosion...because unlike water erosion where the current is usually going one way...wind comes from all different directions so you get what we have here...rocks "perched" so to speak.

IF the wind was coming from all directions like you say, there would be no sharp crest to the 'sand dune' would there?

No aliens on this one...lets move on now.
I don't know what you are saying-well actually I do...but I don't see how you can think its anything but erosion that has done this to your rock.
So, show me a Mars example of localised wind erosion and I will alter my opinions.

The images I have provided show unusual triangular shapes in rocks. So you think that they are natural shapes formed by natural weather processes. OK, you are entitled to that opinion. However, I am not sure that I agree. That is why I posted here - to see what others thought. I, like everyone else, need a reality check from time to time.

Software_Pyrate · Veteran Member

Notice that all my examples are "rough edges" so to speak....due from wind erosion...because unlike water erosion where the current is usually going one way...wind comes from all different directions so you get what we have here...rocks "perched" so to speak.

No aliens on this one...lets move on now.

Software_Pyrate · Veteran Member

", I have seen this movie too, but I do not see much evidence of wind erosion around rocks, which makes me wonder if there is much wind."

So you've got a clear movie clip from a rover-that clearly shows dust devils.
but you do not believe there is any wind erosion?

The image you have provided clearly shows wind erosion.

But here is some more rocks..."pearched" so to speak. Doesn't look like any body "placed" them there to me.... hmm

Or....

or....my favorite....

I don't know what you are saying-well actually I do...but I don't see how you can think its anything but erosion that has done this to your rock.

another poster has shown "clear" evidence that suggests wind erosion.
I have shown the after maths of wind erosion.....

I take it you must have some evidence that suggest otherwise...

Look, I'm on the same team as you, but I don't see anything other than a couple of rocks sittin in the sand....

Lets not make somthing out of nothing here

qmantoo · Teaching the truth

"rounded" rocks are usually the result of water as it is much more abrasive

really? so why do they use sand-blasting to clean old dirty buildings rather than high pressure water-blasting which would be much more convenient and less dangerous.

I do not think regular wind erosion would produce triangulare rocks on top of a triangular rock like this lower right one. Plus the other picture has multiple triangular shaped carvings into the rock also.

As I said before, there does not appear to be any evidence of wind erosion around the base of rocks, and if there is no life there, then thiese rocks have been there for a long, long time being 'exposed to the weather'.

What reason do you have for thinking that these shapes may be caused by wind erosion? Can you show me any other similar shapes or similar detailed shapes caused by obvious wind erosion?

ICEMAN · Senior Member

I think that the dust devil is fake it looks to transparent.

Software_Pyrate · Veteran Member

On a side note..."rounded" rocks are usually the result of water as it is much more abrasive.

Software_Pyrate · Veteran Member

I am not a geologist by any means. But it looks as if it was some kind of lake bed rock(as they are flat and compressed), Just guessing but, looks like regualar wind erosion to me...after great lengths of time, I'm sure you'll get all sorts of wierd variations of rocks "pearched" in different positions....

qmantoo · Teaching the truth

Yes, I have seen this movie too, but I do not see much evidence of wind erosion around rocks, which makes me wonder if there is much wind.

I would expect to see some major weathering of rocks and no sharp edges at all (from the soil being blown about in these high winds and wearing away of the sharp edges, but I see sharp edges too). The blueberries must be very sticky because they would all be blown into groups away from the wind behind rocks etc not spread about all over the place.

I think it is a deception by nasa to a large extentbecause, as I say, there is not much evidence of wind erosion. Whirlwinds and dust devils would cause things to be left in small piles perhaps too.

Software_Pyrate · Veteran Member

Just looks like wind erosion to me....

Y u think other wise?

goggog · Teaching the truth

You doubt, what on Mars light breezes?I think that there decent a wind smile

Mars Exploration Rover dust devil movie page

Spoiler: Вы сомневаетесь,что на Марсе слабые ветра?Думаю что там приличные ветра

qmantoo · Teaching the truth

really? so do you think that the sand dune was larger at some time and the wind eroded the soil to leave the rock hanging with at least 1/3rd over the edge of the top of the sand dune (I realise it is only small sand dune, but I dont know what to call it).

goggog · Teaching the truth

I think that usual aeration of soil.

Spoiler: Думаю что обычное выветривание почвы.

qmantoo · Teaching the truth

In the large photo there is a raised rock that I do not understand how it could have been raised in this way. It appears to be perched on a bit of a small sand dune, but what was there before if the wind has eroded the sand away from under it? or how did it get there if the wind has not eroded the sand/soil away? Any theories?

The other two smaller images show "arrowhead-shaped" or "delta-shaped" anomalies.

All these are in this photograph here