Alien Anomalies

goggog · Teaching the truth

RE: In light of recent events...

gbull · Veteran Member

that's sounds fine to me marsrocks,

anything to make this forum less tense.

i like the best evidence board idea but would think that'd be a hard job. :)

"The great thing about this, is that even if we disagree with the moderators on which threads get promoted, we can continue to try to develop our arguments (regardless of how bizarre they may be) in open discussion on the "alternative theories" board, in hopes it may later become acceptable for mainstream presentation."

sounds reasonable, too.

ditto on chandre.

marsrocks · Veteran Member

gbull, your thought on this may lead to a really good idea.

Consider this. We could have one more additional board that we can all read, but only the moderators can start a thread in it - or move a thread to it called the "mars best evidence board." These are threads that get enough positive feedback for the moderators to promote the thread for use in a future video.

All other threads - after enough open discussion - either remain on the regular mars board for further discussion and development - or with enough feedback that the thread does not look like it will lead to mainstream evidence gets moved to the "alternative theories board." This method defeats trolls who would otherwise infest the board, and helps us gather the best evidence into a centralized collection point for video making.

It also encourages us to post feedback of what we think is the most and least compelling evidence. Once the members have spoken, the moderators make the decision of which threads land on which board.

The great thing about this, is that even if we disagree with the moderators on which threads get promoted, we can continue to try to develop our arguments (regardless of how bizarre they may be) in open discussion on the "alternative theories" board, in hopes it may later become acceptable for mainstream presentation.

(Also - I would love to see Chandre back in the fold - I hope that's what's being discussed in the moderator's forum).

gbull · Veteran Member

i don't respond to somethings i have no agreement with. either i see it and don't know what to think or it is out of my realm and will look for more info from others.

when posters put up less than clear pics
(which are many)
sorry!

i cannot get behind them. doesn't mean i am against anything posted.
i wait for other opinions.

sounds whimpy but i do give all views a chance to tell.

i am not egotistical, i want truth and the proof, one offs mean nothing, give me 2 or 3 then we can talk.

qmantoo · Teaching the truth

Certain newer members took it upon themselves to present evidence that shown no consideration to the surrounding geology, instead they tried to show artefacts and effigies which did not exist (sometimes using the same image manipulation as Harry), when I questioned the evidence, I was verbally attacked for having a opinion other than their own, and to show mutual respect to other groups (which usually I agreed with), but what these people did was nothing short of vandalism to the forum, and as administrator I had to put a stop to it to protect the integrity of the forum and the credibility of the real evidence we already posses.

I know this well from experience. The way a forum post dies is for no-one to respond. It generally means that the topic was not interesting, that people did not think the subject was worth serious consideration or thay did not know what to say about it. I have posted topics like this before and got no responses so I can only conclude these reasons.

I agree that it is good that different ideas can be explored here without being ridiculed or criticised and if any member does not respect the viewpoints of others then I think it is right for the moderator(s) to step in and restore order.

However, where necessary, reasons for punative action should be explained in a private message. As one of the people involved, this is what made me really angry - that I did not know where I had 'overtepped the mark' or crossed the line. People like to know what they have done 'wrong' so that they can keep within the boundaries next time. We all work best with knowing the boundaries (even in our private lives) and if we overstep these, then we **know** we are "pushing it" and that becomes a choice/risk we make.

Explaining on a mass general level why some people were banned and why some posts closed, just does not allow individuals to see where they have gone wrong. Personally, I have no problem with authority and I recognise that it is sometimes necessary to control and direct. We are all learning life skills and management of our areas of responsibility (this forum) is one of those life skills in which we have to become proficient over time. As you say, we trip up, learn and move on.

Finally, sometimes people just need a break from responsibilities they have collected along the way, and if we give them time and space, maybe they will feel that they can return to those responsibilities at a later time or maybe they will decide to take on other responsibilities instead. It does not necessarily mean that they no longer agree with us or that they are dissatisfied with our relationship. Change is exciting and dynamic and should not be something to fear.

gbull · Veteran Member

ok, chandre!

Chandre · Dedicated to the truth

I'm here, but in the 'real' world I am on a retreat and not supposed to be accessing technology which is the reason I am not posting at the moment. I will be back in ten days and then we will address all the issues and I will answer all the posts etc. I am watching over you, just from a distance at present. I will be back soon

gbull · Veteran Member

this is not good, i miss chandre.

i hope things can be resolved.

i understand what you go through.

freedom of interpretation, so to speak.

hell, there is group dynamics, individual psychological junk, over the top enthusiasm, skills,

trolls and more stuff i could name, that goes on in a forum.

this is your house and i respect that.

i want evidence that is as solid as we can get. of what, i am open wide.

heck, i have crazy ideas myself.

sorry, i AM keeping a positive attitude here.

Xenon · Administrator

I feel you all deserve an explanation for the recent events at the forum, and understand the reasoning behind the decisions that where made, and why that reasoning caused one of my greatest friends to want to leave us.

For the benefit of newer members here is a brief outline followed by my personal statement to you all.

This forum was created way back in 2005 at a time when I was most active in on line research forums ie:- Alien-UFOs, I decided then that alien anomalies should be open and free to all members, sadly circumstances meant that I had to close the board prematurely and it was put into hibernation for nearly five years.

Then in April 2009 I offered to reopen the forum, so visitors Mr Skippers guest book had a place that they could post ideas and evidence in an open and safe environment free from ridicule.

As the forum opened several highly intelligent people responded by contacting me showing support for my idea, each of them brought their own special skills, and within a very short time a bond grew between us and a team was formed, the forum was reorganised to make it easier for posting (with full credit to Chandre for her planning and implementation).

papadipongo was one of the first to post his evidence to the forum, his amazing discoveries that he shared with us opened our minds to the different ways we could see into the evidence, it was from this point the forum began evolving, friendships forged, and the formamaition of the Planetary Truth Project was formed and a direction taken.

Our first challenge as the PTP was in trying to help the the character called Harry show his evidence to Mr Skipper, it was initially disappointing as his image manipulation evidence was poor, and was shown to be easy to recreate with the right software, but his lions head was interesting to study, not least because of the stone anomaly..... Mars balancing stones

From then on we refocused on other evidence that our members had discovered, Chandre's coin evidence stands as testament to what researching is all about, she studied not just the evidence itself but its background as well.

As you may tell from what I have just wrote, I am very proud of what the forum has become, and we are all responsible to the people that come to visit it, being the only administrator to the site is a privilege I take very seriously, not least because of the decisions I have to take. these past few months have brought a lot of excitement to the forum, and we have new members joining every week, so what went wrong?

Certain newer members took it upon themselves to present evidence that shown no consideration to the surrounding geology, instead they tried to show artefacts and effigies which did not exist (sometimes using the same image manipulation as Harry), when I questioned the evidence, I was verbally attacked for having a opinion other than their own, and to show mutual respect to other groups (which usually I agreed with), but what these people did was nothing short of vandalism to the forum, and as administrator I had to put a stop to it to protect the integrity of the forum and the credibility of the real evidence we already posses.

The really heartbreaking consequence of this event is the decision Chandre has taken to resign, in her heart she thinks that I have stifled and censured free speech when in reality I was trying to protect it, Chandre has become one of the closest friends I have on the web, the trust and instinct shown between us proves that, I just hope she reconsiders her decision.

I cannot say what the future of the forum will be as it is ever evolving with the pace of the evidence, but we do have keep our focus as we have seen what damage a few people can do (whether intentional or not) and the lessons learnt from it , the forum is still open, but no decision has been made yet regarding the closed threads.

Xenon

marsrocks · Veteran Member

OSD, I have now taken the cartoon down. It serves no further purpose.

I have re-read the threads, and I do understand your arguments. In some instances I agree that there was negative behavior. I still I wish it had been handled in another way, and basic free speech could have been preserved. People who engage in negative behaviors expose themselves. Free speech is a weapon where ill-willed people inflict their own wounds. The power of reason is greater than the power of censorship.

Insults and abusive language have no place in civilized discussion, and censorship becomes necessary in those and similar limited events - but a well placed comment by the moderator - in each such instance explaining why the censorship (or modification of the post) has occurred, assures other members of the community (and other potential new members) that mods are using their powers delicately, and only when absolutely necessary.

Remember that almost every post here would be deleted on other message boards, because the thought that there is any evidence whatsoever suggestive of artificiality on other planets is considered heretical by the "mainstream."

I am still confused of the reason for locking threads from members in good standing, or of closing threads at all. A year from now, some new member may have an answer to a question that none of the rest of us had considered. Closing the thread means that we may not get a chance to read it.

I hope that the mods have made the right decision.

Thank you for giving me the chance to air out my concerns.

One single drop · Senior Member

Thank you very much for your interesting reply.

"Who benefits ? Discussions on AA are appreciated, in fact AA was created to bring people together and to start a community talking to each other. But discusions did not take place in some threads, demand and offers for discussions about certain points and evidences have been met with silence or some bla bla. Please follow some of the threads to get the picture. The "recent events" do not have anything to do with censorship, but with responsibilty, to make shure and to guarantee that YOU are further be able to post statements like " Threads closed.", wether I personally like it or not. Freedom of expressions does not include to allow others to destroy your house or this side."
Got the point now ?
How about, you would decide to remove "Disclaimer. No out of the box thinking. Thread closed." and return the roots, to Mars or where-whatelse you want to talk about ?

marsrocks · Veteran Member

OSD, thank you for replying to me in such detail. I hope you know that I only wanted to wake you up in the way that you wake other people up - not offend.

You are saying the decision for this response was to address a deliberate and orchestrated attack on the forum by people who were instigating dissension to promote board censorship, and force the moderators to go against their own mission
statement. The sudden banning of numerous members and locking of threads, I fear, will likely have a chilling effect on this forum, and drive a wedge amongst members of a community who we are trying to bring together.

I think people against free speech have won, and I appeal to you and the other moderator's sense of reason and basic human dignity. I know that you and the other moderators are trying to do the best thing for this forum. Forum activity, for the most part, is a very good thing - even if a majority of the posts may be incorrect. We are not adopting each other's thoughts, or incorrect ideas, just allowing them to be vented. A lot of activity draws in other people who may be too shy to post their thoughts - but perhaps, have good ideas. If we know something is incorrect, we can steer people in the right direction so that they arrive at more logical conclusions. This takes patience and time, but can be worth it if it brings more people to a higher proficiency in this pursuit.

In the past, before I found this forum, I have steered some very intelligent people to other forums, only to see their beginning exploration greeted with scorn by more experienced members. This only drove them away, instead of teaching them a better way, leaving us fewer in number.

NASA has a lot of well trained people working toward common goals. If we could duplicate this in the civilian anomaly community with our own large group of well trained searchers, we could do some amazing things in this area.

I am sure that I am probably often wrong in many of my ideas, but discussing them helps me generate better ideas. Sometimes trying to explain to people why I think I am correct - and that they are incorrect - helps me as well - since I have to put my thoughts into words - which isn't always particularly easy. If we respond to interlopers - though they may have other ideas - in a patient way - we win, because this draws in other honest people. They see who we are, and come forward because of who we are and how we treat people.

I urge you and other moderators to please reconsider, and think in terms of the basic moral principles as what makes our reputation - and not what someone may post incorrectly as our reputation.

goggog · Teaching the truth

Hey, at a forum it became absolutely boring!

One single drop · Senior Member

Hi , thank you very much for this quick reply. I am member first, in fact I mostly speak as a concerned member, do not like moderating very much, `cause in my opinion people have to learn independent thinking and acting. Only in the state of maturity individuals are be able to make their own decisions. Normally we get our decisions made. This is not good. Suggestions, claims and hypnotism are working on people trying to move them into a certain line, the whole day long. Who benefits ? Discussions on AA are appreciated, in fact AA was created to bring people together and to start a community talking to each other. But discusions did not take place in some threads, demand and offers for discussions about certain points and evidences have been met with silence or some bla bla. Please follow some of the threads to get the picture. The "recent events" do not have anything to do with censorship, but with responsibilty, to make shure and to guarantee that YOU are further be able to post statements like " Threads closed.", wether I personally like it or not. Freedom of expressions does not include to allow others to destroy your house or this side ? Would be unresponsible.
For some insight, some details:

Good morning,

thank you for your mail. Temporary closing would stop the splitting processes and give a chance to reorganise. I won`t name anybody. Banning certain people is useless, they are masks under masks and may only change a mask, as you see it happen the whole time. Semantic and graph works are that similar, they are so idle , sometimes using identical terms by different ( not different) persons. It is the behaviour which should be banned. Integrity soon will be gone and if gone, it hardly will come back on the same level it has had before.
Thought about why the attacks are happening ? Maybe this side would have had the potential to affect others. They infiltrate very early to dirigize. If doing this too late they have to spend money or bullets to terminate. Not good, expensive and too much public. Something you seem to have done right, otherwise the "farmerboys from Kansas" would not have come up with that kind of offensive backchatting...........
.............United we stand. Isn´t it ?.
I do not depend on support. Praising or critizism cannot affect me or change my course. I pay the price and get my ticket. I cannot give any advice, except those I have given. Their strategy is clear: Fill the side with crap, accuse those who work against the "crap" to be censors ,- accuse them. Same time others appear demanding the moderators to stop the nonsense etc. ........ working against their own species. Who is betraying whom ?
Please talk openly and ask whatever you want to ask.
Best regards

osd

marsrocks · Veteran Member

OSD, I think the forum is taking a wrong turn here. I am only a member and not privy to the rationale of the moderators. So, I don't understand why you have taken this new path. The Mission statement is very clear that patience, open mindedness, etc. are encouraged here. This is a big reason I began posting here. I have seen the use of locking threads on other forums to prevent discussion on many of the items that are seen as conventional here - for instance, the perception of Skipper and his work is often closed down elsewhere. People often need discussion to learn new things - even if they are completely wrong on a subject. I think there were other ways to address the situation that the moderators perceived - having a discussion section for "way out ideas" separated from more conventional ones, as one example.

This forum can be great - tweaking the problems would have been the better move - not cutting off an arm.

One single drop · Senior Member

The universal door is always open. It is a natural door. Nobody is be able to close it. It leads into a box and out of that box. I prefer the way out. It must be possible to talk openly about the danger to get driven deeper into the box and about which mechanisms participate and benefit. An open rational discussion about the navigation and the ongoing semantic warfare attacks on the heart of this side was not possible without immediately being driven deeper into an useless discussion. To avoid loosing the freedom of expression, some clear words had to be spoken. Again: To avoid loosing the freedom of expression, some clear words had to be spoken.
As anybodey else, we do not know the truth, what we know for shure are some of the Non-Truths. To fool people presenting intelligent fabricated constructs of Non-Truths, where some of the truths are right in plain sight, im my opinion, is a crime. Who benefits ?

Your commentary hurts, it is unwarranted in my opinion. I am interested in your motivation and would be glad to hear your thoughts.

marsrocks · Veteran Member

Alien Anomalies

"Creating a fiction when stating a fact destroys the credibility of the truth one are trying to convey"