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Teaching the truth

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RE: Spirit Sol 2109 Manufactured Object? / Wood?
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Dead cows underground.
In my opinion, speculations should be  named speculations and they should be solid serious fact based.  More worse would be, to ground conclusions  on  speculations and present them as facts.   This side  is dedicated to respectability and quality. Like in real life there are some simple rules. Do not fool your neighbour, for example.


Although I do not need to explain, I will.
OSD mentioned 'underground' in the post and I assumed (maybe wrongly) that the comment was referring to my previous post which also mentioned 'underground'. I had also commented on another thread about a dead martian possibly being alive and being like a cow lying down.

Because of this, I felt that the chances were too great that this post was directed at me and so I replied. I was merely pointing out that in my opinion, we are all speculating and there are no 'facts' as such in the NASA photographs because they are so bad (for detailed work anyway). The elevation to science is in this statement quoted above and the assumption that there are solid serious 'facts' to be gleaned from these photographs is not reasonable.

Unfortunately perhaps, I do not live in anywhere where I can make personal visits to my representatives and so all I can do is to make representations to them in other ways such as email or letter. Perhaps, some of this is frustration, but I do feel that we should not place ourselves in the same camp as scientists firstly because the general population regards scientists as more knowledgable and credible in their area of expertise and secondly because we do not have access to the same 'official' data since we are not scientists recognised by officialdom.

Of course we all have skills which come from experience, and we may indeed be experts in some field or other, BUT we are acting in an un-official capacity and cannot make public statements that refer to our 'official' status. We have to build up our credibility as knowledgable, honest, and reasonable people independently, without the implied 'status' that our official capacity gives us.

I am new here so I do not know the personal relationships that you have built up between each other and this may be what is causing me to identify some of what I see as harsh comments. This, plus the fact that there are people whose native language is not English, may lead to misunderstandings in the way expressions are used. I know very well that these can be the cause of much argument where no disagreement is meant.

I am interested in moving towards disclosure but in a measured way, since I believe that if it is done too quickly, it will cause panic and knee-jerk reactions from those who are operating behind the scenes and that could be disastrous for all of us. Unfortunately for all of us, time is running out and so it has to be a balance between moving swiftly towards a point and also trying to maintain reasonable balance in the status-quo.

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OSD One single drop wrote:

Thank you very much for your kind reply, your offer to help and how you expressed it. That was a multilevel really good one.
I hope we are ok.




OSD.. there was never a problem

Take care

(offer always stands)



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qmantoo wrote:

We know that there are plenty of underground tunnels and structures on Mars, so why shouldn't they require fresh air from the outside. If it was a personal space underground, maybe they dont have to have huge air ducts but only a small one would be enough. Maybe this is what it is or else it could be a piece such as an air-intake off of a larger machine and it just happens to be buried in the ground the correct way up! (more likely that it is supposed to be thay way and it is not a piece off of a machine)



Gooday qmantoo: Just need to clarify a few things as im a bit confused on where you stand. 1st you state your opinion (above) which was a reasoned arguement. Then you state (in bold below)

As far as I am concerned, everything is speculation here because firstly we have no way to verify what we 'speculate' apon and secondly it is not coming from people recognised as experts in their scientific field with science degrees and qualifications in relevant areas.

The "Facts" that we present here are not (currently) accepted as fact by the scientific community and as such are still in the realm of "Beliefs" - very similar to religion.

The basis of this site is not scientific in any sense of the word. We just do not have enough good pictures to make accurate observations. 

Although I recognise that we are working towards a more open and honest space program and what we do collectively is useful and beneficial to the wider community, please do not elevate this work to science because it is not.

Where is the elevation to science that obviously bothers you? A user submits a picture he has observed and ( im hazarding a guess this is a forum?) people take part in the debate. So gmatoo, im curious, explain the processes that you felt has happened over a few posts thats brought forward this request?

Meteoriteman posted the image.  He was curious.  He posted in a forum.

You said

The "Facts" that we present here are not (currently) accepted as fact by the scientific community and as such are still in the realm of "Beliefs" - very similar to religion.

I say:  SO.

Im really getting to nub of this . Im not meaning to be argumentative but youre right in regards the brick wall of quality imagery.But im pretty sure youre firing your guns in the wrong direction. When did you last sit down (or may i say demand a meeting) with your local politician?When did you last turn up at your local planetary society and demand better images?

Look, gmantoo, we are all frustrated. Remember the term divide and conquer? Those are the watch words of governments whom hold all the keys.Its human nature, unfortunately.You have my sympathies and I feel the last 2 posts seem to contradict each other.But again I can understand.I find this interesting as Ive had the same discussions (heated) with H and others.

One day Nasa will release and disclose. I think its already started. Just look at the number of anomalies appearing. Scientists are abit like glorified priests. They protect their own interests. I hope what is being hidden is worth all these countless delays and unfortunate deaths. All we can do as keep an eye on things. have a bit of fun and learn learn learn.



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Thank you very much for your kind reply, your offer to help and how you expressed it. That was a multilevel really good one.
 I hope we are ok.

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One single drop wrote:

Dead cows ( Zebus) and "underground" indeed have nothing to do with this side. That was the point of this serious satire and that´s my opinion.  But the moon thing is much more interesting. No comments about that ?
The basis of this side should be some sort of creative science, as we are working close to the frontiers and we want to move something. This work deserves and needs  honesty , strongness and efforts and a lot of fun and joy. But no silliness no stupidity and no desinformation.

Scan10295-II.jpg

"It is so horrible! Over there are lots of these alien rocks in these alien mountains on this alien planet in this alien solarsystem in this alien galaxy in this alien galaxy cluster in this alien alien universe...." – " He , they´ve warned us during the training this moment will come!"




I try sometimes to keep up with your vast intellect OSD.. But dead cows lol.. Do they really appear to you in this thread? lolol I hope I havent touched some nerve.

Your drawing strike me as quite lonely, isolated and quite sad. I hope ur ok.

PM me if u need to talk.



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Dead cows ( Zebus) and "underground" indeed have nothing to do with this side. That was the point of this serious satire and that´s my opinion.  But the moon thing is much more interesting. No comments about that ?
The basis of this side should be some sort of creative science, as we are working close to the frontiers and we want to move something. This work deserves and needs  honesty , strongness and efforts and a lot of fun and joy. But no silliness no stupidity and no desinformation.

Scan10295-II.jpg

 "It is so horrible! Over there are lots of these alien rocks in these alien mountains on this alien planet in this alien solarsystem in this alien galaxy in this alien galaxy cluster in this alien alien universe...." – " He , they´ve warned us during the training this moment will come!"





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Teaching the truth

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What do dead cows underground have to do with anything?

As far as I am concerned, everything is speculation here because firstly we have no way to verify what we 'speculate' apon and secondly it is not coming from people recognised as experts in their scientific field with science degrees and qualifications in relevant areas.

The "Facts" that we present here are not (currently) accepted as fact by the scientific community and as such are still in the realm of "Beliefs" - very similar to religion.

The basis of this site is not scientific in any sense of the word. We just do not have enough good pictures to make accurate observations. 

Although I recognise that we are working towards a more open and honest space program and what we do collectively is useful and beneficial to the wider community, please do not elevate this work to science because it is not.

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Dead cows underground.
In my opinion, speculations should be  named speculations and they should be solid serious fact based.  More worse would be, to ground conclusions  on  speculations and present them as facts.   This side  is dedicated to respectability and quality. Like in real life there are some simple rules. Do not fool your neighbour, for example. 


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Teaching the truth

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We know that there are plenty of underground tunnels and structures on Mars, so why shouldn't they require fresh air from the outside. If it was a personal space underground, maybe they dont have to have huge air ducts but only a small one would be enough. Maybe this is what it is or else it could be a piece such as an air-intake off of a larger machine and it just happens to be buried in the ground the correct way up! (more likely that it is supposed to be thay way and it is not a piece off of a machine)

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Didn't see this mentioned, it may be nothing, I don't know but this looks to me as if it is a sqaure peice sticking up oout of the surface at an angle, or it even could be
circular depneding on how you look at it.

object from ground 01

and here is what I am talking about

object from ground 02

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astonishig find guys
something of artificial of course

it seems more a stable structure than something of crashed from the sky, but can be both of these two



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or maybe some sort of a steel beam like object.
part of a machine ?

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Hi, Nice image.. Time on reveal  2 mins
Conclusion: Complex machinary.. Purpose unknown (maybe irrigation pump)

irri.gif

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Spirit Sol 2109 Manufactured Object? / Wood?

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/2109/2N313598761EFFB256P1806L0M2.JPG

16mars.JPG


15mars.JPG


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