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Teaching the truth

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RE: More rover track questions
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So we have got to a point in the discussion where it is a matter of opinion. You go your way, and I will go mine. You cannot convince me by repeating what you said over and over again.

Maybe it works for other people, but if you want to convince me, then you will need to explain both the strange tracks going off at 90 degrees AND the depression in the sand.

They are both part of the same event/incident and probably what made the strange tracks also made the depression in the ground. I too think it is not made by the rover - so who or what made it?

Actually, O'Brien, I would like to hear you confirm that you believe that Mars is inhabited by sentient beings or that maybe you believe that there is no valid reason why we receive such poor quality photographs from NASA. Since you know from your profession how good these photographs CAN be, you should be the first to say how poor the quality are and to question why they are so bad.

If you believe that everything is above board and NASA are presenting the facts exactly as they know them to be, and that none of the photographs are modified to hide stuff, then why are you here? What do you get from correcting our illusions?






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qmantoo wrote:
The quality of the picture is such that I do not think that proves anything.


Yes, in that we are in agreement. The first image does not contain enough detail to conclusively show what you are trying to prove.

qmantoo wrote:
You cannot point to a poor quality picture and say this proves your point when there is a better (marginally) quality picture which disproves it.


The first image points out the places where it is impossible to determine anything related to the wheel turning. In the second image there is detail, and nothing unusual.

 



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Teaching the truth

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Glad you are happy now you think you have solved the mystery.

However, I am not convinced. The quality of the picture is such that I do not think that proves anything. I do not believe that what you say is foreshortening IS foreshortening.

You cannot point to a poor quality picture and say this proves your point when there is a better (marginally) quality picture which disproves it.

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qmantoo wrote:

You can plainly see that IF this was the rover, it has not resumed a forward motion (towards the camera) because the ridges of the tracks are still pointing at 90 degrees.


Your logic would be sound if you could unambiguously see what's going on at each of the wheel turn points. But you can't. Each of the circled areas below are approximately where the wheels turned back to the direction that would allow the rover to keep going in the forward direction. There just isn't enough detail to make your claim with certainty, except perhaps with the closest one, which is tantalizingly out of frame.

Picture 5.png

But there it is on the Hazcam http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/r/2311/1R333353328EFFALS9P1312L0M1.JPG

Picture 8.png

Exactly as expected. Non issue.



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Teaching the truth

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I dont believe it can be explained as forshortening. As I said, there is a definite edge to the marks almost as if it was placed there from above, rather than being rolled there like a wheel. My head-images are of a large wheel-like thing with spokes with 'feet' on the end moving across the landscape.

The major manovering (or the appearance of it) could be to cover up some other tracks which may be disclosed in later photographs. However, that explanation is for the conspiracy theorists.

If a rover stops. turns all wheels 90 degrees and moves about a metre, it cannot resume forward motion without reversing and GOING OVER the tracks at 90 degrees. You can plainly see that IF this was the rover, it has not resumed a forward motion (towards the camera) because the ridges of the tracks are still pointing at 90 degrees.

It would have to have been picked up and placed facing the camera for these tracks to be real, and on Mars, that is impossible.

Sorry this does not add up. Apply your own logic to these pictures and see for yourself.

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The side tracks look more like footprints than the tracks of the rover. This can not be possible otherwise we would have seen the same kind of evidence in other images. What puzzles me is the elongated straight marking in the ground alongside the track marks. Is there anything by the side of the wheels that could make this mark?

The other thing of interest can be seen in the image below. Te circled object appears to be a tiny structure of some description.


1N333433579_1767R0M1_2312_crp_900.jpg

Image credit:  NASA/JPL-Caltech  

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The photo you posted is from Opportunity Sol 2312.

Here's a quote from the mission status report:
"On Sol 2311 (July 25, 2010) [the sol prior to your photo], driving resumed with a 20-meter (66 feet) east/southeast backward drive, followed by an 8-meter (26 feet) test of backwards-driving hazard avoidance. The hazard avoidance test was successful and supports the use of hazard avoidance for backward driving on longer drives."

The sideways excursions shown in the full image here seem to be occurring some distance away; I could believe that's within 26 feet.
1N333433579EFFALS9P1767L0M1-BR.JPG


Also, a lot of maneuvering seems to have taken place at the end of the drive as seen by the HazCam image here.

1R333353328EFFALS9P1312R0M1.JPG

In any case, Opportunity wasn't just travelling in a straight line, it was doing some complicated driving.

"The marks do not appear to be the same width as the rover tyre." Foreshortening.

"Although these marks have rover tracks in them, they are on top of the rover tracks each time. If we were talking about rilles and craters, this would suggest that the rover tracks were laid down before the other marks, which does not really make sense to me." They are the last marks to be made. When the wheel comes back from it's excursion to the side, those are the marks on top and they cover up the previously made mark from farther away. But remember, some complicated things were going on, and the rovers can stop, back up obliterating a previous track, the move forward. It's obvious that a lot of manuevering was going on so a conclusion that seems self-evident might not be as easy as you think.

"Also, there appears to be a mark, right in front of the camera, where something has been put down in the sand between the rover tracks and has left a slightly curved impression." This is the first real rover track anomaly that has any credibility at all. Everything else is easily explained away.

Nothing below the rover should have gouged that. It's unlikely that the IDD (which COULD have made the gouge) was used intentionally or accidentally. There don't seem to be any rocks in the area that rolled in such a way to make it. It doesn't look like the wheels have come near it.

It's a mystery.


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Something intrigues me about these pictures and it is NOT the rover tracks which have been discussed here

details_tracks.jpg

It is the sideways marks that appear at fairly regular intervals and it is this that I think the rover is photographing and possibly (yes, possibly) the rover tracks have been overlaid on top of them to make them look  normal.

At first I thought that they might be the rover stopping and turning its wheels - in which case there would be 6 of these sideways marks (If I call them giant footprints, it will make you think I think that is what they are. I dont because I dont know.) However, there are more than 6 which I suppose could mean that the rover tried to stop more than once, but the marks are roughly the same size and shape(on the left, anyway). The marks do not appear to be the same width as the rover tyre, even though some of the sand they are in would be softer, and there is a clear 'edge' to them too. If these tracks were smaller because they were on harder ground, there would not be a definite edge.

Although these marks have rover tracks in them, they are on top of the rover tracks each time. If we were talking about rilles and craters, this would suggest that the rover tracks were laid down before the other marks, which does not really make sense to me.

Also, there appears to be a mark, right in front of the camera, where something has been put down in the sand between the rover tracks and has left a slightly curved impression.

Does anyone have any clues as to what this might be please?

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